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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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57 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Because that particular person comes out with lies that I have supposedly posted and always acts the fool. Sorry, but people like that don’t deserve being treated with respect. If the cap fits B)

The article I posted is full of examples as to why it is relevant to the EU topic. The person in question even a while back made it part of this discussion that he didn’t see any customs checks etc in Greece . You see where we are heading now ? And still he needs it spelt out like a , well child is probably the less insulting thing that springs to mind

one example to help you out


Greece has denied it uses such methods, insisting it is complying with European and international law and protecting the borders of the European Union.

 

 

 

YOU can disagree, as we all do at (most) of the times on here but suggesting someone (who obviously isn't) is as thick as a plank weakens your argument not strengthen it. 

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50 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Because that particular person comes out with lies that I have supposedly posted and always acts the fool. Sorry, but people like that don’t deserve being treated with respect. If the cap fits B)

The article I posted is full of examples as to why it is relevant to the EU topic. The person in question even a while back made it part of this discussion that he didn’t see any customs checks etc in Greece . You see where we are heading now ? And still he needs it spelt out like a , well child is probably the less insulting thing that springs to mind

one example to help you out

Greece has denied it uses such methods, insisting it is complying with European and international law and protecting the borders of the European Union.

No, I don’t see where we’re heading, I just see you digging  :D

I said several days ago I didn’t see any customs controls in the Ionian and so why should there be any on the Irish border.

You and Humph said there would have been boats that I didn’t see.

One of you then scrabbled around for an article to support it and came up with one that said there were no boats but there were drones and a pink customs house where everyone, including smugglers, was supposed to voluntarily declare their wares.  :D

I asked why this couldn’t be a solution to the Irish border.  The two of you couldn’t answer that.

Anyway, what methods does Greece deny using and how is that helpful to today’s discussion about whether or not the EU, rather than its countries, should have a military?

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14 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

But not a word from those German car manufactures saying get a deal

Or from Merkle supporting a deal at any cost

So another reason given for a deal being an easy thing to do has long gone

 

YOU obviously haven't been reading newspapers ... 

German and Dutch businesses have called on British and European negotiators to reach a last-minute Brexit deal, warning that failure to do so would be a "disaster".

Talks were put on hold on Friday night with the UK and Brussels facing “significant divergences on [the] level playing field, governance and fisheries”.

Dr Joachim Lang, chief executive of the Federation of German Industry (BDI), the equivalent of the CBI in the UK, said: "There must be a last-minute agreement on a new trade deal. Anything else would be a disaster.

OR ... ANGELA MERKEL fears grave economic consequences for the German car industry amid warnings that the Brexit talks could finally collapse this weekend.

OR ... GERMAN industry leaders are urging the European Union to strike a trade agreement with the UK amid growing fears of an economic catastrophe in the event of a no deal Brexit.

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4 hours ago, DC2 said:

Other than reducing command centres and sharing costs you’re talking gibberish.

It makes no sense for smaller EU countries to be replicating military functionality that could be shared.

Why would The Netherlands need massed tank regiments when any land invasion would likely come through Germany first, whereas Germany doesn't need a blue water navy because it's got a relatively short coastline and no real offshore possessions? Why would small countries like Latvia go to the great expense of maintaining air bases if another country in the region could provide that whilst they focus on something else like special forces. Why do countries need transport aircraft that would sit around much of time, when a common pool could be maintained at lower cost to everyone?

Frankly it's the Brexiteers that talk gibberish when they obsess about an 'EU Army', which is far from what's claimed when you actually look at the details of what it entails.  

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19 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

 

19 hours ago, DC2 said:

But we seem to have more than the EU with its drones “policing” the Ionian!  :D

 

19 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Well you didn't want the EU to have a military, so it's hardly surprising... :rolleyes:

 

There’s the two posts.

No idea why you think I don’t want the EU to have an army? I don’t think I’ve ever expressed a view on the point.

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19 minutes ago, DC2 said:

I said several days ago I didn’t see any customs controls in the Ionian and so why should there be any on the Irish border.

Let's not have to go through this again. My recollection is that you claimed there were no border controls when we've quite clearly proved they do exist. 

By your own admission you didn't leave Greece so wouldn't have needed to clear customs, but because you didn't see immigration or customs controls, it doesn't mean that enforcement doesn't exist, or that the borders are not monitored in some way. Quite aside from that fact that Corfu is likely a low risk border given that Albania has a more convenient land border with the EU for illegal immigrants and smugglers to cross. 

Ireland is a land border between two much larger economies - one of which is a large gateway for goods shipped from outside the EU. Entirely different scenario...

 

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3 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Let's not have to go through this again. My recollection is that you claimed there were no border controls when we've quite clearly proved they do exist. 

By your own admission you didn't leave Greece so wouldn't have needed to clear customs, but because you didn't see immigration or customs controls, it doesn't mean that enforcement doesn't exist, or that the borders are not monitored in some way. Quite aside from that fact that Corfu is likely a low risk border given that Albania has a more convenient land border with the EU for illegal immigrants and smugglers to cross. 

Ireland is a land border between two much larger economies - one of which is a large gateway for goods shipped from outside the EU. Entirely different scenario...

 

Just to be clear, because the EU is making a big point about the Irish border, is the EU’s only border force in the Ionian a few drones?

And what was your point about me not wanting an EU army?

Edited by DC2

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20 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It'll also push up consumer prices, create inflationary pressure and probably suppress demand at a time when the UK economy is on its knees. Brilliant thinking, and who'd have thought a Tory government would be in favour of higher taxes...? :rolleyes:

It's been pointed out time-and-time again that wasn't the case - in fact quite the opposite in the case of the Irish and Danish referenda, and the Irish referenda were in fact about amending the Irish constitution. Yet the Brexiteers continue to gurgitate the same misinformation they lazily pull from their Eurosceptic echo chambers without ever bothering to check the veracity of it.

Sums Brexit up... 

Humphrey, sorry for the delay in responding to your response but I have been extremely busy. As a person who has full access to various legal databases I know that your statements are factually incorrect.

The Irish initially voted against the Lisburn Treaty and were told by the EU to vote again. Here is a link to a newspaper article that you can see supports my eelier statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/13/ireland or https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty

The Netherlands from Wikipedia 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Dutch_European_Constitution_referendum

And lastly the Danish vote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35002158

As for tax raises that is inevitable after the money the government has paid out during the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

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1 hour ago, Vince said:

What really scuppered negotiations from the very start for the UK was remain supporting MP's taking no deal off the table immediately in the hope of overturning the referendum decision. Had all efforts gone into creating the best conditions for leaving from the start it is very likely we would be in a different place now. Instead Remain supporting politicians deliberately made leaving as difficult as possible.

I find it hilarious how the Brexiteers can't take responsibility for the mess they've got the UK into. 

The country is heading towards a no-deal scenario, so how was it taken off the table?

Of course Remain supporting politicians wanted to minimise the economic disaster they knew was headed in the UK's direction with Brexit, but the BoJo government has had plenty of opportunities to negotiate the best conditions for leaving. However, they continue to be deluded that they can both have their cake and eat it, hoping the EU will blink first, but their bluff has been called just as Remainers predicted. :rolleyes:

It would be laughable if the end result for so many people wasn't so tragic... 

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1 hour ago, iris123 said:

 Here we go again. A typical Guardian article . In-named “ sources close to the President” . Who are these sources ? How do they know traffic is 50% heavier? Have they checked traffic statistics or is that a guess? Or could it perhaps be a bit of propaganda ? Then tucked half way down the article we find tailbacks are being caused by security incidents caused by immigrants trying to jump on the backs of lorries , oh dear there’s a surprise.

Then we get a quote from an un-named spokesman in the British side, and he says the delays are caused by the reduction in the number of ferries caused by Covid . Oh now there’s a surprise.

Then we come to a Guardian classic  . We are told told that Jaguar and Honda had to cease production because of lack of parts but when we click on the Guardians own link it turns out the Jaguar say their closure is due to a covid  related issue and Honda say it’s partly due to ships being held up at Felixstowe and lack of containers in China. Nothing to do with Brexit. Then we see complaints about lack of stock in IKEA and again on reading the Guardians own article we see it’s due to unexpected demand and they are hiring extra staff to deal with .

Do us a favour Iris and stop posting these links to the Guardian. They are written by people who don’t even remember what they wrote a few days ago for the pot smoking liberals at the BBC, who probably can’t remember what day of the week it is

:)

Edited by E I Addio
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32 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Just to be clear, because the EU is making a big point about the Irish border, is the EU’s only border force in the Ionian a few drones?

And what was your point about me not wanting an EU army?

To even ask the first question shows you didn’t read the earlier posts or were at least unable to understand the links provided. :party:

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2 hours ago, Robbie B said:

The Irish initially voted against the Lisburn Treaty and were told by the EU to vote again.

I don't know about Lisburn Treaty, but assuming you meant the Lisbon Treaty I'm afraid you're unfortunately still misrepresenting the situation. 

The first Irish referendum was to amend the Irish Constitution to allow ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, but specifically to delete the opt-out on common defence. This was considered by the public to compromise traditional Irish neutrality and it's widely accepted to be one of the main reasons for the narrow rejection.

A derogation was subsequently agreed with the EU, and specifically the defence opt-out retained in the Irish Constitution. The second referendum was on the amended amendments to the Constitution (not specifically the Lisbon Treaty), and that was passed with a large majority (67%). 

So it's quite the opposite that the EU ignored the Irish voters.

Quote

And lastly the Danish vote

The Danish voters very narrowly rejected ratification of the Maastricht Treaty for similar reasons to Ireland - specifically with respect to common defence and the adoption of the euro. Opt-outs were subsequently agreed with the EU, and put to another referendum which was subsequently approved by a significant majority. 

So again, it's quite the opposite that the EU ignored the Danish voters. 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

YOU can disagree, as we all do at (most) of the times on here but suggesting someone (who obviously isn't) is as thick as a plank weakens your argument not strengthen it. 

Someone who just comes out with lies and seemingly can’t even understand what is in provided links can only be described as such. And will be so in future whenever they fail to understand quite clear reports provided 

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5 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Someone who just comes out with lies and seemingly can’t even understand what is in provided links can only be described as such. And will be so in future whenever they fail to understand quite clear reports provided 

Lies?

What, when I said you were pro-lockdown and you said that was a lie but couldn’t come up with a single post to the contrary?

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37 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

The country is heading towards a no-deal scenario, so how was it taken off the table?

Of course Remain supporting politicians wanted to minimise the economic disaster they knew was headed in the UK's direction with Brexit,

Not according to Peter Mandelson

 

 Both sides are to blame for killing soft Brexit | The Spectator

Or James Kirkup

  You can thank Remainers for the hardness of this Brexit | The Spectator

:rolleyes:

Edited by E I Addio

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