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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

LITTLEJOHN lives in North London ... nothing wrong with being a hard brexiter or a right wing Tory for that matter. But he is never slow to hammer Boris and co. 

This sums hypocrisy of the man, but those of a Brexiteer persuasion lap it nonetheless... :rolleyes:

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/richard-littlejohn-work-from-home-covid-19-the-daily-mail-90496

Plenty of sources say he also lives in Florida. 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

When will you learn Steve that throwing insults about people who voted to leave around like confetti actually diminishes not enhances your comments. And please point me in the direction of the survey that concluded the 17 plus million who voted to leave are of inferior intelligence than those that voted to stay.

Do you really believe the EU are punishing us by treating us the same as other third countries?

Why do you think products like dairy, shellfish and fresh meat were left out of the trade agreement? Before you jump to the conclusion, remember, the fisheries minister didn't read the trade agreement before voting on it as she was busy with Christmas. Now, do you really think it's all the EU's fault or is it simple incompetence from our Government?

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1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

LITTLEJOHN lives in North London ... nothing wrong with being a hard brexiter or a right wing Tory for that matter. But he is never slow to hammer Boris and co. 

When will you learn Steve that throwing insults about people who voted to leave around like confetti actually diminishes not enhances your comments. And please point me in the direction of the survey that concluded the 17 plus million who voted to leave are of inferior intelligence than those that voted to stay.

Maybe nothing wrong with being a hard line Brexiteer, if that's what you are. Something a bit wrong about claiming to be a hard line Brexiteer and then complaining that imports from the EU now need certification though.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, MattK said:

Now, do you really think it's all the EU's fault or is it simple incompetence from our Government?

Easy one to answer - it's incompetence from the UK government pure and simple.

A comprehensive Customs Union deal was always on the table, but the Johnson government insisted they wanted to be able to diverge from EU standards which obviously has particular consequences for products where environmental conditions are important. Then they messed around for a year playing silly buggers, only getting down to business about a month before the UK was going to completely fall out of the Single Market. And you only have to look at the chaos and economic damage even with a deal, to realise that the over-confident assertions of the Brexit Brigade over no-deal were a complete nonsense. 

In the end, it was clearly a huge rush to even draft what they managed to draft in the time they had left, and that combined with the sheer incompetence of the politicians involved in the UK government, it's quite clear the details of lots of stuff simply got overlooked or were filed in the 'too hard to deal with' category. As the exporters are now discovering to their immense cost.

It isn't just the incompetently negotiated trade deal either. The future rights of British citizens in the EU have also been incompetently negotiated - 'temporary residents' (i.e. those who've lived for less than 5 years continuously in an EU country) can lose their residency if they have to leave for more than a few months (say to look after a sick parent), and even so-called permanent residents only have guarantees for 10 years. There's other flies in the ointment that went unmentioned such as having to show evidence of a minimum income and health insurance, so anyone taking a career break or even retirees could potentially be in trouble (as some Brexit-voting pensioners are now hilariously finding out). 

I won't even get into the mess surrounding driving licenses that's coming 

The current government is truly the most incompetent I have ever seen - it's almost like they specifically recruited the most stupid politicians to be involved in the Brexit process. The effects of their incompetence are already hugely evident, but there's a lot more in small print (or more to the point not in the small print) that's going to surface in due course. No doubt though, the UK government will claim misinterpretation of the agreement, will blame the EU and resort to more jingoist tubthumping, whilst the hard core Brexit Brigade covers their eyes and ears and pretend nothing is wrong... :rolleyes:

But as Project Reality has hit, I think more than a few people in the country are starting to wake up to how they've been duped.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

And please point me in the direction of the survey that concluded the 17 plus million who voted to leave are of inferior intelligence than those that voted to stay.

There's ample studies that show that people with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Leave.

Here's an extract from a Warwick University study

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

On the other hand, there will be a well paid columnist on the payroll of a billionnaire tax-evading owned media title who will think differently. It depends where you think the credibility lies.... 

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1 minute ago, falcace said:

There's ample studies that show that people with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Leave.

Here's an extract from a Warwick University study

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

On the other hand, there will be a well paid columnist on the payroll of a billionnaire tax-evading owned media title who will think differently. It depends where you think the credibility lies.... 

Sounds like complete BS to me...

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9 minutes ago, Blupanther said:

Sounds like complete BS to me...

...that's because it didn't include... "Leave voters also more likely to create female imaginary friends called Crumpet to like their posts on obscure internet forums"

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1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...or indeed the 1 in 4 people within the age group of 18 and 38 who couldn't be bothered voting. Those, one could argue, who had the most to gain/lose my remaining/leaving the EU?

 

7 minutes ago, falcace said:

There's ample studies that show that people with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Leave.

Here's an extract from a Warwick University study

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

On the other hand, there will be a well paid columnist on the payroll of a billionnaire tax-evading owned media title who will think differently. It depends where you think the credibility lies.... 

We have the supposed 1 in 4 not voting in the younger age bands with the general inference that it is a more important to them than others

This age group supposedly would be more likely to vote remain and could've made the difference to the result

Then we have the wonderful Warwick study belittling Brexit voters standing and intelligence

Who however is smarter?

Is it the young EU leaning non voters or the older Brexit voters who made sure their voice was heard?

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1 minute ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Then we have the wonderful Warwick study belittling Brexit voters standing and intelligence

Why is is belittling? There's no judgement cast, just a reporting of facts. People who voted leave are of lower educational attainment. Take from it what you will.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

We have the supposed 1 in 4 not voting in the younger age bands with the general inference that it is a more important to them than others

This age group supposedly would be more likely to vote remain and could've made the difference to the result

Then we have the wonderful Warwick study belittling Brexit voters standing and intelligence

Who however is smarter?

Is it the young EU leaning non voters or the older Brexit voters who made sure their voice was heard?

Quite honestly, I think it's pointless having discussions about who voted for what, but more about what people thought they were actually voting for. 

It's pretty clear that many Brexit voters swallowed much of the lie that the UK could have its cake and eat it - in particular that trade with the EU would be unaffected whilst the UK could cherry pick what domestic industries to protect, that foreigners could be restricted coming to the UK whilst British citizens could continue to freely come-and-go in the EU, that seamless trade with other parts of the world would increase, that the UK would be able to keep all its fish whilst throwing out the French and Spaniards from its waters, along with ridding itself of 'EU red tape'. We won't even get onto the outright lie about '350 million per week going to the NHS'. 

Many Remainers knew this was complete nonsense, that leaving the EU would have many detrimental consequences, and that the world has long changed since when 'Brittania Ruled the Waves'. Yet we were derided by the Brexiteers as creating 'Project Fear' etc etc..

Even the more thoughtful Brexiteers assured us that working in the EU would just be about 'filling in a few forms', technological solutions were available to address the Irish border problem, and that 'seamless' trade had existed before the EU existed, so it wouldn't be a problem in future. All of which has been laid bare in the last 3 months as being completely wrong - not least because the nature of European and global trade has greatly changed in the past 30 years or so - so now we get the excuses about variously needing 1, 5, 10 or 20 years (delete as appropriate) to sort things out...  :rolleyes:

All the Brexiteers have to cling on to these days, is the rather hamfisted vaccination programme in the EU, ignoring of course that limited production facilities are the root cause, that the UK is also reliant on external production facilities, and that UK government had more incentive than most to get its vaccination programme right because it had so badly mishandled COVID in the first place. Yet all we get from those of Brexit inclination, is ridiculous jingoist triumphalism straight out of the Daily Express, as if by far the highest COVID death toll in Europe is something to be proud of... 

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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1 hour ago, falcace said:

There's ample studies that show that people with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Leave.

Here's an extract from a Warwick University study

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

On the other hand, there will be a well paid columnist on the payroll of a billionnaire tax-evading owned media title who will think differently. It depends where you think the credibility lies.... 

If Remain voters are more intelligent, why did so many of them lack the intelligence to get out of bed and go to a Polling Station and vote ?

Surely these highly intelligent Remainers would know that referendums are decided by votes , not by sulking  on internet forums

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1 hour ago, falcace said:

There's ample studies that show that people with lower educational attainment were more likely to vote Leave.

Here's an extract from a Warwick University study

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

On the other hand, there will be a well paid columnist on the payroll of a billionnaire tax-evading owned media title who will think differently. It depends where you think the credibility lies.... 

If that report is to be relied upon it mean the yobs that have been rioting in Bristol and setting fire to police cars , and injuring police, all at the expense of the taxpayer , must have been predominantly Remain voters.

As Blu says, it sounds like a load of old Billy Smart

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2 hours ago, falcace said:

 

"We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction." 

 

But it’s amazing how their life satisfaction has improved with the spectacle of the whinging remoaners.  :D

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1 hour ago, falcace said:

Why is is belittling? There's no judgement cast, just a reporting of facts. People who voted leave are of lower educational attainment. Take from it what you will.

I know very many highly educated people whom have little or no common sense. Classed as highly intelligent but with no idea of life outside a textbook

Take from that what you will

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14 minutes ago, djr said:

If Remain voters are more intelligent, why did so many of them lack the intelligence to get out of bed and go to a Polling Station and vote ?

Surely these highly intelligent Remainers would know that referendums are decided by votes , not by sulking  on internet forums

Staying with the the facts, leave voters are likely to have a lower educational attainment. If your interpretation is that it relates to intelligence, that's your business.

Now, why did many not vote? That is a good question, which I haven't seen the answer to. But again, as the above study shows they are less likely - than leave voters - to be of older age and therefore retired or claiming benefits, therefore have jobs to go to on a Thursday. So, to accuse them of laying in bed is not really accurate.

I'm relatively engaged in politics, but there has been at least one occasion when I haven't voted. I was 20, at university in Edinburgh and after a full day's study, I went straight to my evening shift at Tesco's on the checkouts (fun times). By the time I'd got home at 9pm, I had an hour's window to trudge out in the pi**ing rain to the polling station. Hands up, I didn't do it.

That doesn't make it right, but anyone with a grain of empathy would understand why a pensioner and an unemployed person with a full day on their hands is more likely to make that trip. It was also pi**ing it down on Thursday 23 June 2016. Not an excuse, but a reason why those workers/young parents/students have less window of an opportunity that those who are time rich. Even now as a 40-something parent, young kids and running a business, I only really have a two hour window once the kids are in bed to tag team with the wife to nip out and vote on the day.

It's a separate discussion, but I have never had a satisfactory answer to why elections are not held at the weekend? Surely that would result in a better turn out? If that's what people want...

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