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European Union - In Or Out?

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

But you'd have voted for Trump anyway? :D

NO I wouldn't ... but it's academic and hardly worth a conversation

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8 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

NO I wouldn't ... but it's academic and hardly worth a conversation

I did but for some reason it wasn’t counted.....

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10 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WAS he or was he working with the Michael Martin to try and resolve the Irish protocol issues rather than the whole deal? Me thinks the latter ...

A SENIOR moment ... meant the former ... tackling the Irish protocol issue. 

 

10 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WAS he or was he working with the Michael Martin to try and resolve the Irish protocol issues rather than the whole deal? Me thinks the latter ...

 

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The 'shellfish war' between the UK and the EU moved closer to a resolution last night after fishermen around the country were given the green light to export their catches to the continent.

No 10 was left furious earlier this year when the EU suddenly announced a ban on the export of live mussels, oysters, clams and cockles in what was viewed as an act of revenge for Brexit.

The European Commission said it would not accept crustaceans fished from Britain's so-called Class-B waters – which account for the vast majority of the produce – on the grounds of 'purity', despite Ministers being able to point to correspondence in which Brussels assured the UK that the exports would be allowed if accompanied by the right health certificate. But now, in a review, the independent Food Standards Agency has upgraded the waters off Kent, Essex, Devon, Cornwall and Northumberland to Class A. 

So shellfish caught there can avoid the EU ban without further purification treatment because they are deemed safe enough for direct consumption. A Government source said: 'The ban on the import of shellfish from Class-B waters was without scientific or technical justification. They effectively changed the law to justify their position in blocking the trade, despite clear indications that the export from Class-B waters for purification could continue after the transition period. This resulted in damage to markets on both sides of the Channel.'

Addressing suspicions that Ministers manipulated the system to foil the EU, the source added: 'The independent review was conducted according to long-standing and stringent protocols on health standards.

Source: Mail on Sunday

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Posted (edited)

The waters off Kent and Essex are certainly not class A waters. Govt manipulation which will probably not wash with the EU and could actually kill people who eat these shellfish untreated.

Edited by Steve Shovlar
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12 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

WAS he or was he working with the Michael Martin to try and resolve the Irish protocol issues rather than the whole deal? Me thinks the latter ...

It'll be under the guise of Northern Ireland of course, but amounts to the same thing as the same rules need to apply to exports to Northern Ireland as the rest of the EU. Without implementing common standards nothing will change. 

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13 hours ago, Diamondboy said:

I did but for some reason it wasn’t counted.....

I voted for Biden three times. But don't tell anyone. Who knows what it could start.

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11 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

The 'shellfish war' between the UK and the EU moved closer to a resolution last night after fishermen around the country were given the green light to export their catches to the continent.

No 10 was left furious earlier this year when the EU suddenly announced a ban on the export of live mussels, oysters, clams and cockles in what was viewed as an act of revenge for Brexit.

The European Commission said it would not accept crustaceans fished from Britain's so-called Class-B waters – which account for the vast majority of the produce – on the grounds of 'purity', despite Ministers being able to point to correspondence in which Brussels assured the UK that the exports would be allowed if accompanied by the right health certificate. But now, in a review, the independent Food Standards Agency has upgraded the waters off Kent, Essex, Devon, Cornwall and Northumberland to Class A. 

So shellfish caught there can avoid the EU ban without further purification treatment because they are deemed safe enough for direct consumption. A Government source said: 'The ban on the import of shellfish from Class-B waters was without scientific or technical justification. They effectively changed the law to justify their position in blocking the trade, despite clear indications that the export from Class-B waters for purification could continue after the transition period. This resulted in damage to markets on both sides of the Channel.'

Addressing suspicions that Ministers manipulated the system to foil the EU, the source added: 'The independent review was conducted according to long-standing and stringent protocols on health standards.

Source: Mail on Sunday

I do hope that the exporters of live shellfish can start trading (safely) with the EU again and I don't want to shoot the messenger, but so much of that statement in the Mail is total and utter cobblers. 

The EU didn't 'suddenly' ban live exports of shellfish; the agreement clearly states in black and white, in plain simple language  that only live bivalve molluscs from Grade A waters can be sent to the EU. Most of the UK's waters is Grade B and needs depuration  before consumption. Depuration plants cost around £100,000 to build a small one, add another 0 to build a facility with the capacity to deal with the numbers some exporters require, they take up a lot of space and certainly round here where I live they would never receive planning permission to build them. So the vast majority were shipped to the Netherlands where they do have the facilities.

Defra claimed that they had assurances from  the EU that they could continue to export with the right animal health certificates, but the Shellfish Association of Great Britain had been asking for sight of that legal advice and agreement between the EU and Defra since September 2019; they did not get to see it until the crisis point in February 2021 when they saw straight away the supposed agreement was flawed, as they had suspected all along.

It is also completely untrue to say that B grade shellfish are safe for direct consumption. Changing the grading overnight doesn't make them safe to eat and the oysters sold locally here continue to be purified in the small depuaration facility (more of a shed really!) we have on the island. I love my oysters, preferably raw and unadulterated but there's no way I'd eat one of our famous Mersea Natives unpurified.

I'll be very interested to see how we've suddenly got cleaner seas. The grading is based on E coli numbers per 100g of mollusc flesh. Grade A must have less than 230, Grade B less than 4,600 in 90% of samples and not exceeding 46,000 in the remaining 10% - a massive difference in quantities between the two grades.Testing occurs around 8 - 10 times a year, Grade A waters can lose that grading with one bad test, around here in North Essex with low lying marsh land, fast tides stirring sediment in shallow waters, sewage overflows and agricultural run off grade A has never been achieved apart from one or two unique creeks. For five different coastal counties to be upgraded in one foul swoop is unheard of. There is no question that manipulation of the system has occurred or we have lowered our food safety standards - something we were told would never happen with Brexit.

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6 minutes ago, Shrub said:

I do hope that the exporters of live shellfish can start trading (safely) with the EU again and I don't want to shoot the messenger, but so much of that statement in the Mail is total and utter cobblers. 

The EU didn't 'suddenly' ban live exports of shellfish; the agreement clearly states in black and white, in plain simple language  that only live bivalve molluscs from Grade A waters can be sent to the EU. Most of the UK's waters is Grade B and needs depuration  before consumption. Depuration plants cost around £100,000 to build a small one, add another 0 to build a facility with the capacity to deal with the numbers some exporters require, they take up a lot of space and certainly round here where I live they would never receive planning permission to build them. So the vast majority were shipped to the Netherlands where they do have the facilities.

Defra claimed that they had assurances from  the EU that they could continue to export with the right animal health certificates, but the Shellfish Association of Great Britain had been asking for sight of that legal advice and agreement between the EU and Defra since September 2019; they did not get to see it until the crisis point in February 2021 when they saw straight away the supposed agreement was flawed, as they had suspected all along.

It is also completely untrue to say that B grade shellfish are safe for direct consumption. Changing the grading overnight doesn't make them safe to eat and the oysters sold locally here continue to be purified in the small depuaration facility (more of a shed really!) we have on the island. I love my oysters, preferably raw and unadulterated but there's no way I'd eat one of our famous Mersea Natives unpurified.

I'll be very interested to see how we've suddenly got cleaner seas. The grading is based on E coli numbers per 100g of mollusc flesh. Grade A must have less than 230, Grade B less than 4,600 in 90% of samples and not exceeding 46,000 in the remaining 10% - a massive difference in quantities between the two grades.Testing occurs around 8 - 10 times a year, Grade A waters can lose that grading with one bad test, around here in North Essex with low lying marsh land, fast tides stirring sediment in shallow waters, sewage overflows and agricultural run off grade A has never been achieved apart from one or two unique creeks. For five different coastal counties to be upgraded in one foul swoop is unheard of. There is no question that manipulation of the system has occurred or we have lowered our food safety standards - something we were told would never happen with Brexit.

And do we think the EU will fall for it...? :rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

And do we think the EU will fall for it...? :rolleyes:

The King of Belgium who famously  (well famously around here) until Brexit used to have a box of Mersea oysters delivered weekly may go for it! Any nation that dips chips in mayo could probably also stomach a few dodgy oysters!

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Funny you should talk about oysters. My cousin and Aunt were eating oysters on the coast at Brancaster Staith yesterday !!!

But from what little I know on the subject the European oysters on the German coast have become pretty much extinct and replaced by pacific oysters

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16 hours ago, Shrub said:

The King of Belgium who famously  (well famously around here) until Brexit used to have a box of Mersea oysters delivered weekly may go for it! Any nation that dips chips in mayo could probably also stomach a few dodgy oysters!

So long as the mayo is not made with British eggs exported without a health certificate... :D

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2 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

So long as the mayo is not made with British eggs exported without a health certificate... :D

Mayo is one of the worst things you could ever put into your body, that might explain the high death rate in Belgium...;)

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4 hours ago, Blupanther said:

Mayo is one of the worst things you could ever put into your body, that might explain the high death rate in Belgium...;)

In that case , lets donate a few tonnes to the eu commission for their personal consumption :D With extra helpings for VDL and Verhofpillock B)

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