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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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3 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Presumably because you are based in the UK and didn’t have to ferry in people based half way round the world

So a company that's substantially not based in the UK should get tax breaks over companies that are based in the UK? So much for British jobs for British(-domiciled) people then...? :D

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4 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You really do believe the right-wing propaganda you read, don't you?

 

One thing at a time. As the one who first called for “actual evidence “ in support of allegations,  where is your “actual evidence “ that it is in fact merely propaganda and that the account given by Dyson is demonstrably false ?Perhaps you can give us your evidence once you have given us “actual evidence “ that Dyson was given inducement to act as cheer leader for Brexit.

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9 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You really do believe the right-wing propaganda you read, don't you?

I want the government to be giving its funding to companies that actually have experience in doing what they're being asked to do. Remember that 'ferry company' that was awarded a 14 million contract by Chris Grayling, even though it didn't have any ferries or have any experience of running ferry services. :rolleyes:

Making vacuum cleaners is one thing, but ventilators fit for medical use is quite another thing, quite aside from all the medical certifications that are undoubtedly required. Dyson has absolutely zero experience in the medical equipment market. 

As for 'people dying', well presumably the need actually wasn't all that great as Dyson supposedly wasn't awarded a contract because the ventilators weren't actually needed, quite aside from the fact that none of the submitted designs (from multiple companies) reportedly met the necessary requirements. 

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-he-agencies-hot-topics-2020-4-a-blow-to-dyson-as-government-figures-don-t-stack-up/

No doubt it was yet another boondoggle that never added up, much like the ridiculous NHS app that 35 million was wasted on, which (unlike the South Atlantic Airport) never did work properly. And I suspect if you scratch the surface with all these things, you'll find the Tories' mates at work... 

DYSON have brilliant engineers and many companies starting from scratch helped with the production of ventilators. And, Dyson did not request funding (actually put in £20 million of their own money). 

With car production and racing suspended amid the covid-19 pandemic, McLaren answered the UK Government's urgent call for industry to save lives by playing a pivotal role in the production of more than 13,000 medical ventilators to treat covid-19 patients. 26 Aug 2020

Four Formula One teams, including world champions Mercedes, are mobilising to help with the production of 20,000 ventilators that will be required over coming weeks by patients with severe coronavirus symptoms.

Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and Williams all have applied-technologies divisions that can accelerate the manufacture of ventilators, which remain in acutely short supply as the Covid-19 outbreak escalates across the UK. An F1 spokesperson gave the strongest signal yet that the teams would respond to the government’s call for assistance, saying there was likely to be a “tangible outcome within days”.

Between them, the UK-based F1 teams offer some of the most advanced engineering expertise in the country, with their factories capable of the rapid prototyping and high-value manufacturing that can address critical needs in the fight against coronavirus. It is expected that the teams will work closely with Innovate UK and University College London in an effort to deliver ventilators as quickly as possible to the hospitals that demand them.

 

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5 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

So a company that's substantially not based in the UK should get tax breaks over companies that are based in the UK? So much for British jobs for British(-domiciled) people then...? :D

Tax relief is the expression you are searching for.  I am not getting into political rights and wrongs because that is like arguing how long is a piece of string, 

You are dredging up a point that has been explained all ready. Go back and re- read it. If you are too thick or blinkered to grasp it I can’t help you. 

 

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15 minutes ago, dj350z said:

That wouldn't surprise me one bit as the DTI have advised me to set up an office in Europe if I want to protect the business that we have been doing with the EU for 30 plus years!! What a joke! 

 

16 minutes ago, dj350z said:

That wouldn't surprise me one bit as the DTI have advised me to set up an office in Europe if I want to protect the business that we have been doing with the EU for 30 plus years!! What a joke! 

That’s as maybe and I don’t envy your difficult business situation one bit , but even if you business was located in the EU  or any where else you would still find it difficult to persuade your employees to move from a low tax country to a high tax country if they were going to be worse off because of it.

Humph is just trying to stir it because he can’t stand Dyson due to his Brexit position. We can all see what’s behind it

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16 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

DYSON have brilliant engineers and many companies starting from scratch helped with the production of ventilators. And, Dyson did not request funding (actually put in £20 million of their own money). 

With car production and racing suspended amid the covid-19 pandemic, McLaren answered the UK Government's urgent call for industry to save lives by playing a pivotal role in the production of more than 13,000 medical ventilators to treat covid-19 patients. 26 Aug 2020

Four Formula One teams, including world champions Mercedes, are mobilising to help with the production of 20,000 ventilators that will be required over coming weeks by patients with severe coronavirus symptoms.

Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and Williams all have applied-technologies divisions that can accelerate the manufacture of ventilators, which remain in acutely short supply as the Covid-19 outbreak escalates across the UK. An F1 spokesperson gave the strongest signal yet that the teams would respond to the government’s call for assistance, saying there was likely to be a “tangible outcome within days”.

Between them, the UK-based F1 teams offer some of the most advanced engineering expertise in the country, with their factories capable of the rapid prototyping and high-value manufacturing that can address critical needs in the fight against coronavirus. It is expected that the teams will work closely with Innovate UK and University College London in an effort to deliver ventilators as quickly as possible to the hospitals that demand them.

 

I'm well aware of the engineering capabilities in the UK, but I'm also aware of the onerous certification requirements for medical equipment. F1 has different engineering challenges - they build machinery to perform at high performance for relatively short durations before it breaks, which is a bit different to the reliability and sanitary requirements needed for a ventilator for example.

Your article is out-of-date as all the F1 stuff wasn't approved as far as I'm aware, with the exception of McLaren which I think was part of the Penlon consortium which is local to Oxford. Penlon is a long-established manufacturer of medical equipment, which is no doubt why they got the gig. 

I daresay that Dyson could get their equipment certified with enough development, but there's ultimately a reason why medical companies choose to make medical equipment and vacuum cleaner companies make vacuum cleaners. 

You can read all about it straight from the horse's mouth, rather than the Daily Mail... https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Investigation-into-how-the-Government-increased-the-number-of-ventilators.pdf

 

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30 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Tax relief is the expression you are searching for.

No, tax relief isn't the expression I'm searching for.

As far as I'm aware, the definition of tax relief is legitimate expenses incurred in the performance of work, that are eligible to be deducted from taxable income. 

Dyson appears to have been asking for changes to the tax residency rules, specifically how many days someone can work in the UK before being liable to pay UK income taxes. I think most would consider that to be a 'tax break' - whether justified or not - although be my guest if you want to argue the toss over the meaning of that... :rolleyes:

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On 4/25/2021 at 12:54 PM, E I Addio said:

3.In any event one incorrect post in more than four years is not a bad record compared with you regular nonsense in the meantime such as trying to tell us that the TV licence was not a tax. 

So you didn't claim that you never read Guido / Order Order either then...? :rofl:

You really do walk into these things...

 

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9 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

No, tax relief isn't the expression I'm searching for.

As far as I'm aware, the definition of tax relief is legitimate expenses incurred in the performance of work, that are eligible to be deducted from taxable income. 

Dyson appears to have been asking for changes to the tax residency rules, specifically how many days someone can work in the UK before being liable to pay UK income taxes. I think most would consider that to be a 'tax break' - whether justified or not - although be my guest if you want to argue the toss over the meaning of that... :rolleyes:

I think most would consider that a small price to pay, given the circumstances at the time of the pandemic when the it was perceived that the lack of ventilators would result in countless deaths.

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2 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I think most would consider that a small price to pay, given the circumstances at the time of the pandemic when the it was perceived that the lack of ventilators would result in countless deaths.

If his company had actually produced any production-quality ventilators, which it didn't. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

If his company had actually produced any production-quality ventilators, which it didn't. 

As it turned out.

Was that outcome known prior to the tax rule change?

Edited by Vincent Blachshadow

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21 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I think most would consider that a small price to pay, given the circumstances at the time of the pandemic when the it was perceived that the lack of ventilators would result in countless deaths.

It might be considered a small price to pay if all suppliers/contractors were treated in the same way, tax wise.

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16 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

If his company had actually produced any production-quality ventilators, which it didn't. 

BECAUSE the Government decided not to move forward with Dyson who, contrary to what HA suggests possess huge technical engineering prowess. If you recall there was a massive outcry over the lack of ventilators, especially for the Nightingale hospitals, but that dissipated quickly.

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1 minute ago, dj350z said:

It might be considered a small price to pay if all suppliers/contractors were treated in the same way, tax wise.

IT'S academic anyway because the Dyson offer was not taken up. 

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5 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IT'S academic anyway because the Dyson offer was not taken up. 

It’s not academic to me and many other companies involved. How very convenient to make a statement like that!!

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