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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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4 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

That seems to be a clear enough statement to me but somehow you want to keep narrowing it down to supposedly shady billionaires with vast offshore funds as vehicle for you to vent your spleen on anyone who voted for Brexit.
 

A lot of the influencers behind Brexit had a great deal to lose by the EU closing in on their shady schemes, which it was doing. Follow the money and you invariably find the motive.

I don't agree that tax havens can't or won't be closed down - at least the worst of them. When it was just a handful of dictators, ex-Nazis, weird cults, ex-colonials squirrelling their money away after decolonisation, and international criminals who were never going to pay tax anyway, no-one much cared as it wasn't really undermining the tax base of the developed world and it also meant the remaining colonies didn't need to be given hand-outs. Plus of course, at one point they did keep some national governments honest in terms of bringing down tax rates from ridiculous levels.

However, even though tax has come down to more reasonable levels, tax avoidance mechanisms have become systematic and widespread and is substantially undermining the tax bases of the developed world. We can argue about what an acceptable level of taxation is, but no-one making profits should be paying zero or even close to zero. It really is that simple. 

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26 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

As for anti-woke, I now hear from British Airways that next time I fly with them I will be neither a gentleman nor a lady because if Iwere addressed as such it would upset a minority of a minority who probably won’t be on the plane anyway. 
 

I don't really see how it matters.

I never address anyone as 'Sir' or 'Madam' anyway, so I could care less how I'm addressed. In fact, I'd rather that the BA staff don't talk to me their somewhat patronising tone at all, but if it offends you then just don't fly with them. Simples... :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

Hump, I said before you jumped into this line of discussion that money and corruption dont recognise international boundaries . That seems to be a clear enough statement to me but somehow you want to keep narrowing it down to supposedly shady billionaires with vast offshore funds as vehicle for you to vent your spleen on anyone who voted for Brexit. 
Politics is about money and power. Where there’s muck theres money. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That’s the way life is in the real world in real life . There are no knights on white chargers to come and sort it out. As the OECD have reported there is massive mafia involvement in EU projects, just as there is in other parts of the world .Thats why much of the equipment bought by Band Aid 35 years ago was pilfered, and other parts of it where still on the dock side 30 years later amongst petty squabbles.

Closing down tax havens is not going to happen. There are too many vested interests. Just as there are too many vested interests in the EU for there to be serious change.  Governments say one thing and do another. Thats why I have no faith in them.

As for anti-woke, I now hear from British Airways that next time I fly with them I will be neither a gentleman nor a lady because if Iwere addressed as such it would upset a minority of a minority who probably won’t be on the plane anyway. The same minority of a minority whose own bigotry and opposition to free speech caused Rosie Duffield MP to miss the Labour part confrerence due to their death threats towards her.That’s the world we live in. 


 

Grumpy old Brexiter spaffs on whilst the rest of us enjoy those 'sunny uplands'..:nono:

 

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 We can argue about what an acceptable level of taxation is, but no-one making profits should be paying zero or even close to zero. It really is that simple. 

In the murky world of politics nothing is that simple. 
The perpetrators of the murder of Jamal Koshoggi shouldn’t be given a veneer of credibility by being allowed to buy Newcastle football club. That is quite simple  but there’s money involved and arms deals and Newcastle want to buy success like other clubs do so it’s not simple. That’s how it works, right through the range when there’s people you can’t afford to upset.

 

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9 minutes ago, YerRopes said:

Grumpy old Brexiter spaffs on whilst the rest of us enjoy those 'sunny uplands'..:nono:

 

I should be enjoying the sunny uplands of Clearwater Beach right now but thanks to Covid Biden  and Brexit I can’t. 

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I don't really see how it matters.

I never address anyone as 'Sir' or 'Madam' anyway, so I could care less how I'm addressed. In fact, I'd rather that the BA staff don't talk to me their somewhat patronising tone at all, but if it offends you then just don't fly with them. Simples... :rolleyes:

Try telling the ambivilatious professionally offended brigade it doesn’t matter, and that it doesn’t justify death threats because someone says they haven’t got a servo. 
Of course I have to fly British Airways. I have standards to mantain. A man in my position can’t be seen sitting with the riff raff on Virgin. I went them once. Never again. 

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Its all too late now but its amazing how so many on here just want to bend over and be shafted by Brussels. Perhaps the surge in mental illness isnt anything to do with covid at all. Lack of self confidence ? Problems in the bedroom department ? Or just downright hatred of the UK ? Forget deporting immigrants , lets start with the #FBPE pro eu mob , the country will be better for it. Set them all up on South Georgia. Problem solved. :D Then let the Argies have it.

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5 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Its all too late now but its amazing how so many on here just want to bend over and be shafted by Brussels. Perhaps the surge in mental illness isnt anything to do with covid at all. Lack of self confidence ? Problems in the bedroom department ? Or just downright hatred of the UK ? Forget deporting immigrants , lets start with the #FBPE pro eu mob , the country will be better for it. Set them all up on South Georgia. Problem solved. :D Then let the Argies have it.

Given up on sensible discussion and an actual defence of the Government's position I see. Much easier to accuse those you disagree with of suffering from a mental illness or problems in the bedroom. Problem solved and no need to defend an indefensible position. 

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2 minutes ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Its all too late now but its amazing how so many on here just want to bend over and be shafted by Brussels.

It's also amazing how some don't think the UK should honour international agreements that it made less than a year ago. It's also amazing how some think that starting a trade war during a pandemic is a clever thing to do, and it's even more amazing how deluded some are who think that UK officials throwing tantrums is going to browbeat a much larger trading bloc into allowing a backdoor into its market. Brexiteers contrived the situation, so now you own the mess you created. 

Yet more amazing how Brexiteers claiming to take back control are also prepared to hand over South Georgia to Argentina... :rolleyes:

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13 hours ago, norbold said:

Given up on sensible discussion and an actual defence of the Government's position I see. Much easier to accuse those you disagree with of suffering from a mental illness or problems in the bedroom. Problem solved and no need to defend an indefensible position. 

 

 Sensible discussion ended on this thread a long time ago and was replaced by this sort of knock about stuff :

 Argument Clinic - Monty Python - The Secret Policeman's Balls - Bing video

:)

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7 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Sensible discussion ended on this thread a long time ago and was replaced by this sort of knock about stuff :

Pretty much at the point the Brexiteers realised their claims were not coming true and that 'Project Fear' had largely been right all along. :D

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14 hours ago, norbold said:

Given up on sensible discussion and an actual defence of the Government's position I see. Much easier to accuse those you disagree with of suffering from a mental illness or problems in the bedroom. Problem solved and no need to defend an indefensible position. 

That ship sailed a while ago for some. Never to return. There's some obvious repeat offenders on here. Let's be honest, there's millions of them out there too...they walk amongst us.

Such is the slavish devotion to the right wing narrative and slogans, they are utterly conditioned. Whenever the elite are held to account - even when they are elected to represent us - their first instinct is to attack foreigners, BLM, LGBT activists, the left, environmental campaigners, muslims, anyone really who might challenge or undermine the power of the elite establishment and their cosy, cushy corrupt existence. 

Frankly they are oblivious to it, little more than an obedient subject with a vocabulary limited to parroting meaningless terms coined for them like "woke", "liberal" and "lefty". It's all they have got. In short, just the people whose votes matter, but naff all else to the elite establishment,  to enable them to fully exploit for nothing more than personal gain.    

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58 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

Don't know much about City AM but here's an article I found 

UK muscles out G7 to top economic growth league (msn.com)

(whether it's reliable or not will depend on whichever side of the fence one stands, no doubt)

It's not an issue with whether it's reliable, but what the starting point was. The UK economy fell so far because of COVID compounded by Brexit, that even if it is growing 2 percentages points more than the rest of G7, it'll still be way behind where it was in 2019. 

A different (and more realistic) interpretation of basically the same figures...

https://www.ft.com/content/af12d4aa-0a3e-4758-83c4-0c4070b504fb

Quite aside from this, the lack of labour means production and supply is currently unable to meet demand in the UK, and this is fuelling both goods and wage inflation. Not good when if you're trying to stimulate the economy after a shutdown, as the usual trick of raising interest rates can dampen the very thing you're trying to encourage. 

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