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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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12 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

And the underlying point is that asylum seekers are not entering the UK illegally if they ask for asylum upon arrival because many asylum seekers are unable to obtain passports far less visas.

What is really sickening, is those who hide behind things like the Dublin Agreement and 'illegal entry' to justify pulling up the drawbridge and moving the problem somewhere else. People who talk about making 'proper provision' for asylum seekers without actually wanting to do anything about the problem, and using the excuse of other countries not doing anything to justify that position. Moreover, snarky comments purporting to know what concerns others might have. 

Of course there are traffickers exploiting the situation, but that's because there are desperate people trying to get away from war and other conflict. Equally, there are British politicians like Priti Patel who attempt to exploit the issue with their 'get tough' rhetoric to gain support from voters of a certain ilk. :angry:

...this bit I agree with. She's full of rhetoric and false promises and history will deem her as Priti "Hopeless".

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

And the underlying point is that asylum seekers are not entering the UK illegally if they ask for asylum upon arrival because many asylum seekers are unable to obtain passports far less visas.

You are splitting hairs over words. Perhaps it would be better if we refer to irregular immigrants. That is the expression the European Commission seem to use these days to cover a multitude of categories. We all know what we are talking about - people who in a safe country with  fake passports or more often no passports. Some arrive with no passports because they can’t get one but those that do have one destroy their passports along with their other documents and mobile phones because that way they cannot be identified and if they can’t be identified they it is almost impossible to send them back if the asylum claim fails.

It is not a uniquely British problem . As of 2018 it was reported that Germany had 65,000 unidentified migrants with no documents.There are plenty of reports of irregular migrants getting to the ‘British “ side of the Channel then dialling 999 as instructed by the people smugglers to get either the Border Force or the Life Boat service out to bring them in,  then they throw their phones overboard and destroy their pass ports.

It is a complex problem and there is no quick fix. 

Edited by E I Addio

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3 hours ago, E I Addio said:

You are splitting hairs over words. Perhaps it would be better if we refer to irregular immigrants. That is the expression the European Commission seem to use these days to cover a multitude of categories. We all know what we are talking about - people who in a safe country with  fake passports or more often no passports. Some arrive with no passports because they can’t get one but those that do have one destroy their passports along with their other documents and mobile phones because that way they cannot be identified and if they can’t be identified they it is almost impossible to send them back if the asylum claim fails.

It's not splitting hairs because you called them illegal immigrants when generally they are not. If you want to now call them 'irregular immigrants' that's fine with me, but please stop conflating those who clandestinely enter or overstay in the UK with asylum seekers.

I think we all recognise there's a good number of boat people who are not refugees as such, although that does not change the fact that economic desperation is also a significant and genuine driving factor. If you believe that people would willingly leave their home countries to embark on difficult and dangerous journeys to live in poor conditions and to be treated with derision and disrespect when they reach Europe, then I think that shows a real lack of understanding about the world.

However, the fact remains that something like 98% of the boat people do claim asylum, and something like 60% of those ultimately have their applications approved. That suggests to me that the vast majority of the boat people are not illegal immigrants, and that fake asylum seekers are the minority. 

That of course is an inconvenient fact for the likes of Priti Patel who's only response is to blame inflexible 'uman rights laws and of course not the fact that her government's policy is partly responsible for creating the situations in Syria and Afghanistan. She is a utterly vile individual, especially given that her parents were effectively refugees forced out of their country and allowed to settle in the UK.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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In Speedway Star this week Len Silver claims that the collapse of his Silver  Ski business was 100% due to Brexit.

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5 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It's not splitting hairs because you called them illegal immigrants when generally they are not. If you want to now call them 'irregular immigrants' that's fine with me, but please stop conflating those who clandestinely enter or overstay in the UK with asylum seekers.

I think we all recognise there's a good number of boat people who are not refugees as such, although that does not change the fact that economic desperation is also a significant and genuine driving factor. If you believe that people would willingly leave their home countries to embark on difficult and dangerous journeys to live in poor conditions and to be treated with derision and disrespect when they reach Europe, then I think that shows a real lack of understanding about the world.

However, the fact remains that something like 98% of the boat people do claim asylum, and something like 60% of those ultimately have their applications approved. That suggests to me that the vast majority of the boat people are not illegal immigrants, and that fake asylum seekers are the minority. 

That of course is an inconvenient fact for the likes of Priti Patel who's only response is to blame inflexible 'uman rights laws and of course not the fact that her government's policy is partly responsible for creating the situations in Syria and Afghanistan. She is a utterly vile individual, especially given that her parents were effectively refugees forced out of their country and allowed to settle in the UK.

If people enter the country by illegal means then by definition they are are illegal immigrants unless and until they claim asylum. There are no accurate figures as to how many disappear without claiming asylum but the figure is generally agreed at about 1 million.

Taking your figures as a basis if 98% claim asylum and 60% ultimately succeed that means 40% fail, but we don’t see 40% sent home because by having destroyed their documents it becomes almost impossible to prove where “ home “ is. Therein lies the problem.

As for Pritti Patel , her parents came here legally in the 1960’s not as refugees as you constantly claim.

However all of this has absolutely nothing to do with the underlying problem which was going on long before M/s Patel took office. I  can think of at least half a dozen cabinet  members including the Prime Minister who are either immigrants, or the children of first or second generation immigrants, but that has very little to do with their effectiveness, or lack of, as ministers or Parliamentarians. . 

 

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9 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

And the underlying point is that asylum seekers are not entering the UK illegally if they ask for asylum upon arrival because many asylum seekers are unable to obtain passports far less visas.

Equally, there are British politicians like Priti Patel who attempt to exploit the issue with their 'get tough' rhetoric to gain support from voters of a certain ilk. :angry:

If you enter the UK from a country of safety without being processed then you do so illegally.

How is Priti Patel doing anything worse than somebody claiming this is all happening because of Brexit and leave voters? Nor is she exploiting the issue any more than dozens of EU member state politicians including some just across the channel, you just single her out because it fits your narrative. She may be a waste of space but that hardly makes her unique among politicians worldwide.

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5 hours ago, wealdstone said:

In Speedway Star this week Len Silver claims that the collapse of his Silver  Ski business was 100% due to Brexit.

It was going downhill anyhow.

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26 minutes ago, Toto said:

It was going downhill anyhow.

Len will be comforted by your input

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1 hour ago, Toto said:

It was going downhill anyhow.

 

44 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

Len will be comforted by your input

Surely that was a joke, you know downhill skiing :unsure:

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On 11/25/2021 at 12:21 PM, Steve Shovlar said:

The death of 27 human beings, people just like you and me, lies firmly in the lap of Priti Patel. Not the French, not the EU, but this nationalistic UKIP government. 

They are to blame, as they have made this situation where desperate people attempt to cross the channel in stormy seas and huge risk. They have no other way of getting here. This Johnson regime don’t offer alternatives. For Gove to say, they could buy a ticket and jump on a plane is ludicrous. They wouldn’t be allowed on a train the same as they couldn’t buy a ticket for a ferry or Eurostar. This government allows no legal way to enter. So these human beings take life threatening risks to themselves and their children. Patel smirks as they drown, their corpses washed up on the beach. 

The UK takes a very small percentage of these desperate people. France took 400,000, Germany 1.2 million. Countries like Pakistan, India, Bangladesh take many millions. The U.K. could do far, far better. We get a tiny trickle of people compared to other European countries. Time for this regime to offer sanctuary. But Patel would rather they drown.

You'd soon change your mind if they lived around your caravan. Forget the fake picture /porn business , you'd be on high alert every day and every night. I'm sure you'll take a few 'gees in Steve yeah ?

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Its nice to see the anti UK , pro eu nutjobs are still on here. Makes my Fridays nights so much such fun when i read their pathetic ramblings  :D

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Just now, Phlipphlopp said:

Its nice to see the anti UK , pro eu nutjobs are still on here. Makes my Fridays nights so much such fun when i read their pathetic ramblings  :D

They are deluded Phlipp. ,why do we as a top six nation easily need to be told what to do  and pay for it .It really baffles me but we shall see in the future f…. the EU  they are gone like the titanic but to there credit will take longer to sink.

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2 hours ago, Phlipphlopp said:

Its nice to see the anti UK , pro eu nutjobs are still on here. Makes my Fridays nights so much such fun when i read their pathetic ramblings  :D

I can understand the rhetoric your a bit cut off down there come up North you'd soon see how the other half lives. Your synopsis on life is a bit sad why have you got so much hate if your life is so good.

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2 hours ago, Badge said:

 

Surely that was a joke, you know downhill skiing :unsure:

Possibly  but jokes have their place

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I would like to apologise to Toto, failed to see the irony of the post. Thanks to Badge for being much more astute than me

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