European Union - In Or Out?

[Humphrey Appleby 11,030]

They've been had...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-59748581

[Pieman72 588]

On 12/21/2021 at 12:00 PM, DC2 said:

I can defend it on the basis that we will not be included in a federal Europe and will retain our entire powers of sovereignty, including the freedom to make our own laws, policies and trade agreements.

The EU is not a federation it never has been nor will it ever happen as all 23 countries will have to get their government to succeed power to Brussels and that's never going to happen. It's a myth emanating from the right wing press. If you are of a compliant regimented personality you probably believe all that pap.

[TesarRacing 1,724]

Having lost my import/export business this year after 30 plus years I have huge sympathy for this Daniel Lambert (Wines):

"We are now twelve months in with Brexit and some media outlets have been in contact to see if everything is as bad I said it would be. Here is my final thread on the reality of Brexit after 12 months and what’s coming in 2022.

Since Brexit started excise goods (Alcohol, Cigarettes, other taxed goods) have been subject to the full Brexit regulations and checks that 95% of all other goods have not had to worry about in 2021.

Therefore the wine industry is very aware of the problems that everyone else will face in just 8 days from now. Moreover it’s why we are nearly fully stocked going into January but had to start that process back in October.

It’s about to get a lot harder because HMRC requires all goods to be pre advised from January 1st. But what does that actually mean? It means that every import must have a U.K. entry number, this is where it gets complicated.

CHIEF (U.K. importation computer system (built in the 80s)) creates an ‘entry number’ for every declaration. Each declaration requires up to 56 pieces of information to validate.

To validate you need to know the senders address, Rex number, EORI number, Excise number, your EORI number, the cost of transportation, the weight, type of packaging, commodity code, type of declaration (CPC) and of course any tax payable.

Once you have all that information you then need to ensure your suppliers understand the rules, have done the right declarations to exit the EU, the goods get a MRN number & know the port of exit BEFORE the goods leave the country of origin.

If your suppliers and you have got all of that done correctly then both set of documents must be stuck to the actual pallet/consignment so that both EU and U.K. customs can check the documents are correct.

Finally if the goods are excise suspended and going to a bonded warehouse (as much wine does) you also need a U.K. ARC number which is created on a different system via HMRC Gateway under EMCS U.K. Another two registrations required right there.

So folks there you have it, from just one document (pre Brexit) the supplier would create, to several barriers to trade which many will have no idea about on both side of the channel despite this coming into force in 8 days.

So one year on with us doing all of the above where are the issues? The fact is the system is so complicated that we seldom have everything done correctly by the suppliers first time round, it normally takes two or three versions to get it right.

Transportation companies are now in the habit (rightly so) of not even collecting stock until all documents are correct. The average lead times have gone from 1 week to 8 and the worst we see from the EU is 12 weeks.

Now I run a wine company which is not perishable goods and if it gets delayed the product is still fine when it arrives. But for fruit and veg and all the other perishable goods I dread to think how companies will cope.

With any business who are not up to speed they simply will not cope and even when you do get it right your suppliers must also be on their A game too. A supply chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

We have seen over 2021 the paperwork we send is often removed by drivers (who don’t know its importance) and this can’t happen in 8 days.

To conclude I simply don’t see how such a steep learning curve for both suppliers and importers will go well, the wine industry as you will see from retailers shelves is barely coping after 12 months of Brexit. Gaps are plentiful. 1

The wine industry now works on three month lead times and more often than not this is not long enough. It’s even worse with American wines. Stock that collected in July still hasn’t arrived in my warehouse. So the issues are global.

Brexit simply isn’t working and those that have been dealing with the full version on excise goods can see the impending plane crash. I dearly hope I am wrong but thus far I have been correct on my factual analysis.

Despite the bleak situation I would like to finish on a positive. Even with all the barriers to trade this week 4 pallets from Spain did turn around from collection to delivery in just 7 days. This is the only delivery in 2021 to achieve this."

[Deano 1,038]

4 hours ago, Pieman72 said:

The EU is not a federation it never has been nor will it ever happen as all 23 countries will have to get their government to succeed power to Brussels and that's never going to happen. It's a myth emanating from the right wing press. If you are of a compliant regimented personality you probably believe all that pap.

So are you saying, if a federal EU state was offered and refusal meant losing free movement of goods, capital and people it wouldn’t happen?

[Humphrey Appleby 11,030]

Not on the side of the bus either...

https://www.cityam.com/brits-will-have-to-pay-for-entry-into-eu-as-bloc-demands-cash-and-pre-approval-for-post-brexit-trips-to-europe-from-2022/

[Humphrey Appleby 11,030]

Lucky to be able to find a cake these days... 

https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/22/tories-cake-stuffed-boris-johnson-covid-restrictions-freedom

[TesarRacing 1,724]

Just a year of Brexit has thumped UK's economy and businesses...........and don't i know it!! 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/how-a-year-of-brexit-thumped-britain-s-economy-and-businesses

[wealdstone 2,999]

50 minutes ago, TesarRacing said:

Just a year of Brexit has thumped UK's economy and businesses...........and don't i know it!! 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/how-a-year-of-brexit-thumped-britain-s-economy-and-businesses

There are some that will never admit or see it unfortunately

[E I Addio 14,280]

19 hours ago, Pieman72 said:

The EU is not a federation it never has been nor will it ever happen as all 23 countries will have to get their government to succeed power to Brussels and that's never going to happen. It's a myth emanating from the right wing press. If you are of a compliant regimented personality you probably believe all that pap.

If it’s a myth of the right wing press , how come several treaties refer to “ ever closer Union “. In fact, given that the phrase appear in a number of ECJ judgments it seems to mean something even closer than a federation.

Some people want the EU to continue in that direction, others don’t. That’s what the trouble is all about.

Edited December 23, 2021 by E I Addio

[DC2 10,664]

21 hours ago, Pieman72 said:

The EU is not a federation it never has been 

Just when did it become necessary for a trading arrangement to have a Parliament?

[DC2 10,664]

21 hours ago, TesarRacing said:

Having lost my import/export business this year after 30 plus years I have huge sympathy for this Daniel Lambert (Wines):

"We are now twelve months in with Brexit and some media outlets have been in contact to see if everything is as bad I said it would be. Here is my final thread on the reality of Brexit after 12 months and what’s coming in 2022.

Since Brexit started excise goods (Alcohol, Cigarettes, other taxed goods) have been subject to the full Brexit regulations and checks that 95% of all other goods have not had to worry about in 2021.

Therefore the wine industry is very aware of the problems that everyone else will face in just 8 days from now. Moreover it’s why we are nearly fully stocked going into January but had to start that process back in October.

It’s about to get a lot harder because HMRC requires all goods to be pre advised from January 1st. But what does that actually mean? It means that every import must have a U.K. entry number, this is where it gets complicated.

CHIEF (U.K. importation computer system (built in the 80s)) creates an ‘entry number’ for every declaration. Each declaration requires up to 56 pieces of information to validate.

To validate you need to know the senders address, Rex number, EORI number, Excise number, your EORI number, the cost of transportation, the weight, type of packaging, commodity code, type of declaration (CPC) and of course any tax payable.

Once you have all that information you then need to ensure your suppliers understand the rules, have done the right declarations to exit the EU, the goods get a MRN number & know the port of exit BEFORE the goods leave the country of origin.

If your suppliers and you have got all of that done correctly then both set of documents must be stuck to the actual pallet/consignment so that both EU and U.K. customs can check the documents are correct.

Finally if the goods are excise suspended and going to a bonded warehouse (as much wine does) you also need a U.K. ARC number which is created on a different system via HMRC Gateway under EMCS U.K. Another two registrations required right there.

So folks there you have it, from just one document (pre Brexit) the supplier would create, to several barriers to trade which many will have no idea about on both side of the channel despite this coming into force in 8 days.

So one year on with us doing all of the above where are the issues? The fact is the system is so complicated that we seldom have everything done correctly by the suppliers first time round, it normally takes two or three versions to get it right.

Transportation companies are now in the habit (rightly so) of not even collecting stock until all documents are correct. The average lead times have gone from 1 week to 8 and the worst we see from the EU is 12 weeks.

Now I run a wine company which is not perishable goods and if it gets delayed the product is still fine when it arrives. But for fruit and veg and all the other perishable goods I dread to think how companies will cope.

With any business who are not up to speed they simply will not cope and even when you do get it right your suppliers must also be on their A game too. A supply chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

We have seen over 2021 the paperwork we send is often removed by drivers (who don’t know its importance) and this can’t happen in 8 days.

To conclude I simply don’t see how such a steep learning curve for both suppliers and importers will go well, the wine industry as you will see from retailers shelves is barely coping after 12 months of Brexit. Gaps are plentiful. 1

The wine industry now works on three month lead times and more often than not this is not long enough. It’s even worse with American wines. Stock that collected in July still hasn’t arrived in my warehouse. So the issues are global.

Brexit simply isn’t working and those that have been dealing with the full version on excise goods can see the impending plane crash. I dearly hope I am wrong but thus far I have been correct on my factual analysis.

Despite the bleak situation I would like to finish on a positive. Even with all the barriers to trade this week 4 pallets from Spain did turn around from collection to delivery in just 7 days. This is the only delivery in 2021 to achieve this."

Sell UK wines.

In Spain many supermarkets sell only Spanish wines.  I doubt that most Spaniards have ever tried one from America.

[DC2 10,664]

3 hours ago, TesarRacing said:

Just a year of Brexit has thumped UK's economy and businesses...........and don't i know it!! 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/how-a-year-of-brexit-thumped-britain-s-economy-and-businesses

And Covid had no impact?

Delusional.

[dj350z 1,889]

DC2 always has the easy answers but hasn’t got a clue! You have absolutely no respect for business people trying to stay in business just so you can justify pathetic sovereignty that you still have not defined to me what it will look like.

Sell UK wines? Have you actually read the post? The company is a wine importer, maybe they have looked at whether they can just supply UK wines but I doubt they would have sustainable business model.

Tesar lost his flower import business earlier this year because of Brexit, I know because I spoke to him about it after reading his plight. Nothing to do with Covid, import/export businesses, particularly those with perishable products are very much at risk. So take delusional back as you have no idea!!!

[Deano 1,038]

I'm trying to find a stat that says the UK economy has bombed due to Brexit. Unless my PC browser is telling me porkies, just about every GDP forecast has us placed 5th for Nominal GDP for 2021. Which to me says, GDP everywhere has been effected by something the past twelve months or just proving to the world we really are just a bunch of whining Poms when something doesn't go our way.

[iris123 14,375]

35 minutes ago, dj350z said:

DC2 always has the easy answers but hasn’t got a clue! You have absolutely no respect for business people trying to stay in business just so you can justify pathetic sovereignty that you still have not defined to me what it will look like.

Sell UK wines? Have you actually read the post? The company is a wine importer, maybe they have looked at whether they can just supply UK wines but I doubt they would have sustainable business model.

Tesar lost his flower import business earlier this year because of Brexit, I know because I spoke to him about it after reading his plight. Nothing to do with Covid, import/export businesses, particularly those with perishable products are very much at risk. So take delusional back as you have no idea!!!

Spot on

That about sums him up on this thread. Lots of hot air about stocking up on UK wine or being self sufficient in food stuffs. A company pruduces very good quality cheese blah blah. Source your parts from elsewhere

It's like the bloke down the pub who thinks he knows the answer to everything and won't give up even if you walk away, he follows you........