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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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20 hours ago, Deano said:

So are you saying, if a federal EU state was offered and refusal meant losing free movement of goods, capital and people it wouldn’t happen?

The EU Federal state is a creation of the English Right Wing Press. It does not exist no will it ever happen. It's a figment of your imagination.

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3 hours ago, DC2 said:

Just when did it become necessary for a trading arrangement to have a Parliament?

To create a Federation is a political agreement that could only be enabled by a parliament.  Trading agreements would be a secondary process if a federation were to be created and that is not even on the table. It's a complete lie by the scheming right wing press in England. A federal EU needs the agreement of 23 countries and that ain't going to happen. Don't believe the hype.

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7 minutes ago, Pieman72 said:

The EU Federal state is a creation of the English Right Wing Press. It does not exist no will it ever happen. It's a figment of your imagination.

My imagination (I'll remind you again I voted remain)? Okay so can I ask you to back up your theory it isn't every going to happen? Closer political union is it's aim.

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5 hours ago, E I Addio said:

If it’s a myth of the right wing press , how come several treaties refer to “ ever closer Union “. In fact, given that the phrase appear in a number of ECJ judgments it seems to mean something even closer than a federation.

Some people want the EU to continue in that direction, others don’t. That’s what the trouble is all about.

To become a Federation has nothing to do with the ECJ that is a separate agreement that has jurisdiction over legal processes in the EU agreed by each parliament. A federation would mean each country succeeding all their legal and parliamentary procedures to Brussels and that isn't even under discussion. It would mean closing down all the individual parliaments and handing over those powers to Brussels. Again it's a creation of the right wing English press. 

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8 minutes ago, Deano said:

My imagination (I'll remind you again I voted remain)? Okay so can I ask you to back up your theory it isn't every going to happen? Closer political union is it's aim.

Structurally could you get 23 diverse countries to agree to a Federal State I just can't see that happening.

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6 minutes ago, Pieman72 said:

To become a Federation has nothing to do with the ECJ that is a separate agreement that has jurisdiction over legal processes in the EU agreed by each parliament. A federation would mean each country succeeding all their legal and parliamentary procedures to Brussels and that isn't even under discussion. It would mean closing down all the individual parliaments and handing over those powers to Brussels. Again it's a creation of the right wing English press. 

So what is meant by the words “ever closer Union “?

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1 minute ago, Pieman72 said:

Structurally could you get 23 diverse countries to agree to a Federal State I just can't see that happening.

I agree, but it isn’t proof it’s never going to happen.

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2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

So what is meant by the words “ever closer Union “?

A Union and a Federation are different and neither are feasible given the difference between member states.

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2 hours ago, Deano said:

My imagination (I'll remind you again I voted remain)? Okay so can I ask you to back up your theory it isn't every going to happen? Closer political union is it's aim.

Sorry Dean but I remember you as an ardent brexiteer and very anti EU. And how people fell for addios Federalism nonsense on here I really don't understand.  The one apparent motive for brexiteers on here was getting rid of foreigners.  Many misunderstood the migrant issue and thought they would be getting rid of Asians

If you want to see the dreadful state of the economy every day then open your eyes is all I can say !

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Departure from the EU has left the country 4% worse off than it would have been had it voted remain

https://www.ft.com/content/c6ee4ce2-95b3-4d92-858f-c50566529b5e

Trade

Britain’s trade with the EU has declined since the country quit the bloc, with firms hit by new customs paperwork and checks.

As of October, UK goods trade with the EU was 15.7 per cent lower than it would have been had Britain stayed in the EU’s single market and customs union, according to modelling by the Centre for European Reform, an independent think-tank.

Growth

Even before Britain completed its split from the EU at the end of 2020, Brexit had reduced the size of the UK economy by about 1.5 per cent, according to estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility. That was due to a fall in business investment and a transfer of economic activity to the EU in anticipation of high trade barriers.

Finance

Brexit has pushed financial firms to move at least some of their operations, staff, assets or legal entities out of London and into to the bloc — but the shift has been smaller than predicted, in part because the pandemic has hampered staff relocations. UK’s financial firms, meanwhile, are still waiting for full access to the EU’s single market.

chart

chart

chart

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1 hour ago, jrs said:

Sorry Dean but I remember you as an ardent brexiteer and very anti EU.

True, but thought stick with the status quo once in the voting booth.

 

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1 hour ago, Pieman72 said:

A Union and a Federation are different and neither are feasible given the difference between member states.

So why are they in the treaties, and why did David Cameron want a legally enforceable guarantee that the U.K. would not be dragged further into closer union ? Why is Guy Verhodstadt for example always on about closer union.

Note I said union , not Union, which is not the same thing .The treaties say union , not Union.

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The increasing reliance on food banks was mentioned earlier in the thread.

No doubt to some extent it’s due to people spending £70 a month on mobile phones when they could be spending £10.

And £48 for broadband when it could be £20.

I pay £3.33 a month with 1p mobile and £21.99 for fibre broadband.

Still, fair play to this lady having a job, although her 18 year old daughter appears to contribute absolutely nothing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59311895

Unfortunately she’s now lost her job but the care sector is in desperate need of workers!  Perhaps her daughter could step up too.

And apparently “Some of the people who have been in touch said the family could shop around to reduce their broadband and mobile phone costs, while others said Christine should seek advice to ensure she's claiming all the benefits she's entitled to.”

Sensible advice. Why didn’t the BBC think of that?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59768465

Edited by DC2

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15 hours ago, E I Addio said:

So why are they in the treaties, and why did David Cameron want a legally enforceable guarantee that the U.K. would not be dragged further into closer union ? Why is Guy Verhodstadt for example always on about closer union.

Quite simply because David Cameron was playing to the Brexiteer gallery.

'Closer union' is an essentially meaningless phrase that can mean anything, and probably isn't clear even inside the heads of the most pro-EU advocates. If it was some nefarious plot to abolish nation states it would have said 'a close union', 'a union' or even 'a Union', wouldn't it?

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