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The White Knight

European Union - In Or Out?

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1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

Irish Ferries would only have to pay the Irish minimum wage if they sailed under the Irish flag. The whole point of them re-registering in Cyprus was to enable them to sack 500 employees and replace them with cheaper foreign labour, despite you trying to tell us that Cyprus doesn’t allow flags of convenience. This is what the RMT union have been complaining about, long before the P&O fiasco.

You haven't been keeping up at the back.

Cyprus is a flag of convenience, but not for vessels sailing between EU ports as I stated earlier. So whilst Irish Ferries did sack staff to bring in other staff on cheaper wages, it was still on Irish minimum wage which is still higher than what P&O are reportedly paying.

As for why they didn't pay minimum wage before, presumably it was because they wouldn't have been able to hire locally if they paid minimum wage and/or it was down to union pressure. By your logic, every company in the UK should also be paying minimum wage, because why would they pay more if they didn't have to.

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You haven't been keeping up at the back.

Cyprus is a flag of convenience, but not for vessels sailing between EU ports as I stated earlier. So whilst Irish Ferries did sack staff to bring in other staff on cheaper wages, it was still on Irish minimum wage which is still higher than what P&O are reportedly paying.

 

Irish Ferries paid foreign crews less than the Irish minimum wage, which is basically only a matter of pence different to the UK minimum wage.

ttps://www.irishtimes.com/business/british-legislative-plans-against-p-o-could-impact-irish-ferries-1.4838603

Last time I looked France , that Irish Ferries sail to , was in the EU , as was the Uk when they were sailing to Holyhead with cheap crews. 

Be that as it may , the basic fact remains that the business model for sacking crews and replacing them with cheap labour originates with an EU organisation, and what is more , it is a practice that is broadly endorsed by the EU in its case law. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

 

As for why they didn't pay minimum wage before, presumably it was because they wouldn't have been able to hire locally if they paid minimum wage and/or it was down to union pressure. By your logic, every company in the UK should also be paying minimum wage, because why would they pay more if they didn't have to.

That is a daft argument. The primary reason unions exist is to get decent terms and conditions for their members. If the management are so incompetent they cant make a profit by paying  the minimum wage they need to look at their own fat salaries first. Minimum wage is not an unreasonable claim for a union to make

I didnt say every company in the UK should be paying the minimum wage, but I have  said many times that every worker should get a fair rate for the job , and if the law relating to the minimum wage applies then it should be adhered to. 

We still come back to the basic point that it was Irish Ferries that started this race to the bottom.

 

Edited by E I Addio

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7 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Irish Ferries paid foreign crews less than the Irish minimum wage, which is basically only a matter of pence different to the UK minimum wage.

I think that article is not correct https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/publications/article/2005/irish-ferries-dispute-finally-resolved-after-bitter-stand-off

However, they may be now using cheaper crew on UK crossings since the UK left the EU. 

7 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Be that as it may , the basic fact remains that the business model for sacking crews and replacing them with cheap labour originates with an EU organisation, and what is more , it is a practice that is broadly endorsed by the EU in its case law. 

The Cyprus registry is not an EU organisation and was likely grandfathered when that country joined the EU. Most EU countries do not have substantial shipping interests so it's probably not something that was top of the agenda to address in the grand scheme of things. 

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7 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I think that article is not correct https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/publications/article/2005/irish-ferries-dispute-finally-resolved-after-bitter-stand-off

However, they may be now using cheaper crew on UK crossings since the UK left the EU. 

 

Dispute resolved only after union and other pressures put on Irish Ferries , which according to the union was "Irish in Name only ".  However Irish ferries still finished up sacking crew members and replacing them with cheaper Eastern Europeans . There concerns were raised in the Irish Times in 2019 about cheapo crews (under minimum wage ) being used and the RMT inion was warning in 2014 about what was coming. 

We still come back to the point that the EU is there for the market, not the worker , although so many on here seem to think the opposite.  What P&O and Irish Ferries have done or at least tried to do  is to turn the clock back on Industrial relations, and the EU have been complicit in this. The whole history of trades unions struggle is against employers who supposedly could afford this or that but under pressure they always seem to. Cheap Labour serves no one in the long run.

 

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1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Whodathunkit ?

No doubt phloppy and DC2 will be doing a shift or two for queen and country :D

Ah, Remoaner short termism and denial of the impact of the stupid Covid response.  :rolleyes:

Regardless, I’m quite happy to grant temporary visas for decent, honest seasonal workers like fruit and veg pickers.

Quite different from undesirables being entitled to live here full time.

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3 hours ago, iris123 said:

Whodathunkit ?

No doubt phloppy and DC2 will be doing a shift or two for queen and country :D

Did my shift earlier. Veg is looking good. Cant see starvation here anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, DC2 said:

Regardless, I’m quite happy to grant temporary visas for decent, honest seasonal workers like fruit and veg pickers.

Quite different from undesirables being entitled to live here full time.

You're so very kind.. 

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11 minutes ago, YerRopes said:

You're so very kind.. 

Yes. Sure there will be a big rush to help out for a short period of time, live and work in poor conditions and then get kicked out again, just like all the lorry drivers rushed over

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41 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Yes. Sure there will be a big rush to help out for a short period of time, live and work in poor conditions and then get kicked out again, just like all the lorry drivers rushed over

Students and others pick fruit on short term contracts around the world every year!

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Yes. Sure there will be a big rush to help out for a short period of time, live and work in poor conditions and then get kicked out again, just like all the lorry drivers rushed over

This Govt attempted to recruit foreign lorry drivers (our European friends apparently) and failed. 

25 mile queues at Dover today.. :nono:

Edited by YerRopes
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