El Predictions 2016

[Aces51 2,778]

Even though Hyde Road was a brilliant race track and that we were spoilt by riders like Craven, Collins and Morton, there were still the inevitable races won from the gate with riders strung out. There will always be a share of those races whatever the track or era.

 

 

These judgements are always subjective. Wolverhampton is now regarded as a track that produces good racing and yet I recall my first visit, I think in the 70's. My first impression was that I had found the cycle speedway by mistake and watching the racing it seemed slow, almost boring and certainly far less exciting than at Hyde Road. Maybe, we have just lowered our expectations and now accept that standard as good or maybe, modern bikes and better track preparation have improved the product at that particular venue.

 

I am certain that the racing at Kirky Lane was nowhere near as good as Hyde Road but still good enough to keep me going every week. Perhaps, the new track will give me a better idea of how standards compare with those earlier times. I think that in those days in addition to bikes of a similar standard, many riders seemed of equal ability and it was those factors that helped the standard of racing. I think one of the pluses of the 2015 EL race format was that it increased the number of races between riders of similar standard and consequently improved the standard of racing.

[BWitcher 12,453]

It happened occasionally but it is a wild exaggeration to, in your words, "you could just show up at a training school and within weeks you're in a team at the highest level!"

 

There is far more to it than just showing up. Riders who came into teams very quickly were and still are the exceptions rather than the rule. Some got into lower leagues fairly quickly but even those were exceptionally talented riders who went to the top. Most, like Collins or Simmons had already ridden grass track or had previous experience of some kind, and were really the equivalent of modern day riders like Robert Lambert who went straight into the top league but with previous experience. Lewis Bridger is another example of a modern day rider that went into the top league at a very young age.

 

On the other hand Ivan Mauger could not hold down a regular team spot at Wimbledon when he first came over and eventually had to drop down to the Provincial League to hone his skills before riding at the highest level.

 

The difference between today and the past IMO is that a lot of second strings are much better than they used to be and riders who don't perform usually get sacked a lot quicker than years ago, but overall you have to compare like with like, and it's futile to compare past and present.

 

It's not an exaggeration as you've just admitted it happened .

 

I didn't say it happened all the time, you've assumed that.

 

Lewis Bridger didn't just show up at a training school, he'd been riding for years before it.. there have been a number of 'interviews' in Backtrack magazine with riders who within a month or two of ever getting on a bike were contending or in a team place.

 

The riders who came from the grasstrack scene were of course very different, they were experienced riders and it wouldn't take them long to adapt and be race ready.

 

I agree with everything else you say though.. the equipment is so vastly different now that you simply cannot say whether riders from yesteryear would be good now and vice versa. The top boys from each era I'm sure could adapt (although not a guarantee) but below that, who knows.

[Mad Potter 2 109]

I never saw any rider excluded for looking behind that was the late 50s early 60s until the present day

 

 

Les Collins Rye House v Stoke 1976. For persistently looking behind according to the Ref.

[B.V 72 1,054]

Mate in the bygone era you had no points limit, so the richest club/ s had the manopoly, they had the clout to sign who they wanted. Today you have to work to a points limit no matter what many on here like to say, you still have to stick withing that limit, and with the restrictions you have and rider avaliability its even harder. Year in year out, Matt puts together a side that at the bare minimum gets to the final. What is it, 6 on the trotski of four of those have been winners. Not bad that.. B WITCHER would love to be printing that.. Then he woke up...

Sorry you are wrong there Starman.Teams in the 70s could not build a side as strong as they liked there was rider control that so called evened the teams out.Any successful team was told they had to release a top rider who was then placed with a weaker team from the year before to strengthen said team up and they then had to replace that rider with a much lesser rider.

Belle vue as an example over their three year league winning run had to release 4 heat leaders over this time Tommy Roper,Dave Hemus,Sandor Levai and Ivan Mauger.All 4 of these riders were replaced by Belle vue home produced riders who had previously rode in the then 2nd division.Mauger was the final straw with his departure our run was over.

The best team of our three year run in my opinion was the 1972 team of which had 5 home produced team members that never cost the club a penny in transfer fees.

So if Poole had the same rules to work with there is a chance that over your 3 year run you were told you had to lose Holder one year and Jankowski the next and replace them with a premier league level rider would you have done as well.

Do you still think it was easier back then.

Edited March 2, 2016 by B.V 72

[Starman2006 2,354]

Sorry you are wrong there Starman.Teams in the 70s could not build a side as strong as they liked there was rider control that so called evened the teams out.Any successful team was told they had to release a top rider who was then placed with a weaker team from the year before to strengthen said team up and they then had to replace that rider with a much lesser rider.

But we are not talking about the 70's, we are talking about the 50's and 60's..

[B.V 72 1,054]

But we are not talking about the 70's, we are talking about the 50's and 60's..

O K then could you tell me the exact official rules for team building in the 50s and 60s thanks in advance.

Edited March 2, 2016 by B.V 72

[Starman2006 2,354]

O K then could you tell me the exact official rules for team building in the 50s and 60s thanks in advance.

There wasn't any, the richest clubs signed who they liked.. Hope that helps..

[B.V 72 1,054]

There wasn't any, the richest clubs signed who they liked.. Hope that helps..

Where can i research this fact thanks again.

Where can i research this fact thanks again.

I have had a look to find team building rules for the 50s without any luck.

All i could find was a top 10 list of riders averages for 1950 and 51.Wembley who won the league in both those years had 1 rider in the top ten in both these years.If as you say team building was all about who could afford the best riders you would have thought that there would be more on the list.

Your argument that it was easier then does not ring true when Poole last year had 3 riders in the top 10 average list.

[E I Addio 15,844]

It's not an exaggeration as you've just admitted it happened .

 

I didn't say it happened all the time, you've assumed that.

 

Lewis Bridger didn't just show up at a training school, he'd been riding for years before it.. there have been a number of 'interviews' in Backtrack magazine with riders who within a month or two of ever getting on a bike were contending or in a team place.

 

The riders who came from the grasstrack scene were of course very different, they were experienced riders and it wouldn't take them long to adapt and be race ready.

 

I agree with everything else you say though.. the equipment is so vastly different now that you simply cannot say whether riders from yesteryear would be good now and vice versa. The top boys from each era I'm sure could adapt (although not a guarantee) but below that, who knows.

rr

 

Your comment was that there have been "numerous" examples in backtrack magazine. "Numerous " in most people's language means many, a lot, or more than just a few. Aces 51 who had more background knowledge than most on here can only think of three riders that went straight into the top flight and all of them had been riding for some time. Your claim is that there are numerous examples of riders turning up at a training school and within weeks were in the top flight but so far we don't have a single name of anyone who did, let alone numerous examples.

 

There might be several examples of some that went into the lower leagues within weeks of sitting on an bike but I doubt if there are numerous examples of riders going straight into the top flight from training school.

 

I think we all agree that racing was better when we were young whenever that was and the riders we grew up watching, whoever they were, were the best.

[BWitcher 12,453]

rr

 

Your comment was that there have been "numerous" examples in backtrack magazine. "Numerous " in most people's language means many, a lot, or more than just a few. Aces 51 who had more background knowledge than most on here can only think of three riders that went straight into the top flight and all of them had been riding for some time. Your claim is that there are numerous examples of riders turning up at a training school and within weeks were in the top flight but so far we don't have a single name of anyone who did, let alone numerous examples.

 

There might be several examples of some that went into the lower leagues within weeks of sitting on an bike but I doubt if there are numerous examples of riders going straight into the top flight from training school.

 

I think we all agree that racing was better when we were young whenever that was and the riders we grew up watching, whoever they were, were the best.

 

I'll do some digging when I'm back home in England and try and find some out as that's where the old magazines are.

 

Regardless, you wouldn't get a team place at almost any level now within a few weeks of first getting on a bike.

[Kester 3,020]

 

I'll do some digging when I'm back home in England and try and find some out as that's where the old magazines are.

 

Regardless, you wouldn't get a team place at almost any level now within a few weeks of first getting on a bike.

 

I have been a semi-regular buyer of Backtrack in the past. I have the same impression as you, I am sure I have read several articles with riders stating that they went from training to riding in the team within a few weeks.

[Shale Searcher 1,264]

If you get a chance, watch:

"Once A Jolly Swagman"

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

I have been a semi-regular buyer of Backtrack in the past. I have the same impression as you, I am sure I have read several articles with riders stating that they went from training to riding in the team within a few weeks.

 

Thanks, like you I'm a semi-regular buyer, I was beginning to think I'd been reading a different magazine

[E I Addio 15,844]

I have been a semi-regular buyer of Backtrack in the past. I have the same impression as you, I am sure I have read several articles with riders stating that they went from training to riding in the team within a few weeks.

The point of contention was the assertion that "numerous" riders went from training school to riding " at the highest level" within a few weeks. Clearly some went into a team of some kind in a fairly short space of time, not necessarily top level.

[stevebrum 6,821]

Now that teams are complete...

 

1. Poole

2. Belle Vue

3. Swindon

4. Wolves

5. Coventry

6. Lakeside

7. Kings Lynn

 

 

 

 

8 . Leicester