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waiheke1

Top Riders Of The 1980s

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Intersting to see Bobby Schwartz in the top 20 despite never reaching a World final.

 

Which begs the question - is it better not to be in the World Final than to qualify and have a bad meeting?

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Nice that Schwartz was remembered because believe me he was a very good rider.Not the quickest but boy could he ride good lines, a great tactical rider so unlucky in a way because there was always that graveyard USA world championship round to get by.Did he once reach a commonwealth final at White City?i think Lee won the round.?

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Nice that Schwartz was remembered because believe me he was a very good rider.Not the quickest but boy could he ride good lines, a great tactical rider so unlucky in a way because there was always that graveyard USA world championship round to get by.Did he once reach a commonwealth final at White City?i think Lee won the round.?

He was one of those that always seemed stronger in team competition. Excellent pairs rider and great for the US in WTC and test matches. Uniquely, he also hated Hyde Road, so that scuppered his progress from an Overseas Final (or two?).

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He was one of those that always seemed stronger in team competition. Excellent pairs rider and great for the US in WTC and test matches. Uniquely, he also hated Hyde Road, so that scuppered his progress from an Overseas Final (or two?).

 

Bobby Schwartz qualified from the American Final in: 1979; 1984 (both times as winner); 1986 and; 1988.

 

He was the knocked out from the World Championship:

 

In 1979 in the Intercontinental Final at White City on 2 points

In 1984 in the Overseas Final at Belle Vue on 3 points

In 1986 in the Overseas Final at Coventry on 5 points, and

In 1988 in the Overseas Final at Coventry on 3 points.

 

He did win the World Pairs in '81 and '82 and World Team Cup in '82. (1982 Carlisle tyres?)

 

IMO, 'Boogaloo' had one of the worst riding styles of any speedway rider I've seen.

Edited by macca56

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Bobby Schwartz qualified from the American Final in: 1979; 1984 (both times as winner); 1986 and; 1988.

 

He was the knocked out from the World Championship:

 

In 1979 in the Intercontinental Final at White City on 2 points

In 1984 in the Overseas Final at Belle Vue on 3 points

In 1986 in the Overseas Final at Coventry on 5 points, and

In 1988 in the Overseas Final at Coventry on 3 points.

 

He did win the World Pairs in '81 and '82 and World Team Cup in '82. (1982 Carlisle tyres?)

 

IMO, 'Boogaloo' had one of the worst riding styles of any speedway rider I've seen.

Not a great riding style but he was a very good team rider he had eyes in the back of his head.I always think the old Dudley Cradley track was a hard one to master just like Newcastle if you did it you generally ended up a very good rider.Was there anybody more patriotic than Bobby to put on the USA body cover?he give everything wore his heart on his sleeve i see quite a bit of his career at Reading really enjoyed it. Edited by Sidney the robin

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Intersting to see Bobby Schwartz in the top 20 despite never reaching a World final.

 

Which begs the question - is it better not to be in the World Final than to qualify and have a bad meeting?

Schwartz was a quality rider (though not round Hyde Rd!), consistent, thought without any one truly outstanding seasons. Based on performance across all 5 seasons (rather than best three) he rises to 16th place.

Whiel Schwartz was the only one of the top 20 not to make a final, there were a number (S moran, Knudsen, Crump,Petersen, L Collins) who made only one.

And some years (192 and 1984) had 4/10 of the top 10 riders not making the final each year. That said, the highest ranking anyone got in this period without making the world final was 5th, by Shaun Moran in 1982, so to finish top three in the rankings it would seem you would have to have a truly amazing season in all other respects if you didn’t make the final.

In terms of rankings, obviously a poor final could have a significant impact. However, to make the final you normally needed to have had at least three decent meetings to get there, while conversely to miss out you needed to have had at least one poor meeting. Additionally, I added a small negative multiplier to riders who failed to make the world final, to partly offset the impact a poor final could have. As an example, Gundersen had a pretty disastrous world final in 1986, but still emerged (rightly) in second place in the rankings in that season. Morton, as another example, was consistently poor-mediocre in world finals but finished top 10 most seasons, and his best seasons in this era were those where he made the world final.

Edited by waihekeaces1
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1985:

 

1 H Nielsen 11.74

2 E Gundersen 11.15

3 S Moran 11.08

4 T Knudsen 10.75

5 K Carter 10.40

6 B Schwartz 9.80

7 L King 9.67

8 S Ermolenko 9.62

9 C Morton 9.53

10 K Tatum 9.49

11 J Cook 9.35

12 J Andersson 9.21

13 S Wigg 8.87

14 J Doncaster 8.79

15 B Petersen 8.74

16 J Davis 8.59

17 Peter Collins 8.56

18 P Ravn 8.02

19 P Eriksen 7.99

20 J O Pedersen 7.95

 

A repeat of the 1984 top three, with Hans and Erik one-two for the third successive year. Slight surprise that Kenny Carter - who had an excellent season until injury - was only 5th, as he would have been a favourite for the World title at Odsal had he not been injured in the inter-continental final, but Knudsen had a season often overlooked for its excellence - Nordic champ, top Dane in the test series, maximum in WTC final, dropped just one point in the World Pairs - a welcome return to form after a couple of injury plagued seasons. The Danes actually contribute 7 of the to 20, with Jan O Pedersen making his worlfd final debut and soaring up the rankings reaching the top 20 for the first time. Bobby Shwartz somewhat of a surprise at 6th in the rankings, while Sam Ermolenko charged up the rankings to 8th on the back of his upset world final third spot. For England, there World Cup woes are illustrated in the fact that three of their top four riders in the rankings were unavailable for the world final - Carter injured, Morton in dispute with team manager John Berry, and Simon Wigg banned. Add in that Belle Vue pairing of Peter Collins (7th Brit) -like Mort also making himself unavailable- and Andy Smith (9th Brit in 22ns spot) was unable to make the WTC final due to short notice, and of course the most talented Brit of the generation, Mike Lee (still only 26) was languishing at 38th in the rankings, after he made a mid-season comeback when his ban was reduced from 5 years to one.

At least for Kelvin Tatum it was an excellent season, arguably the most improved Brit, John Davis had his best season since 1980, while other youngsters like Doncaster, Smith and Knight all impressed.

Billy Sanders started the year in fine form before his tragic death, he would have slotted into the rankings in 6th had he ridden the required number of meetings. It meant for the first time in the decade there were no Australasian riders in the top 20, with Phil Crump (23rd) and Mitch Shirra (37th) the best for their respective nations.

Young Swede Jimmy Nilsen showed promise in his first BL season entering the rankings in 40th, World U21 champ Per Jonsson was just outside the top 50, and in fact the highest ranked young swede was Tommy Nilsson in 26th. Egon Muller was top continental rider in 27th, while Joe Owen was pick of the NL riders in 33rd.

A 16 year old Gary Havelock made his NL debut, though ended the season well outside the top 100.

 

Grand Prix series:

Would have been a superb battle between Hans, Erik, Moran and Carter. I lean towards Erik, on back of his winning both World and BLRC titles, but certainly a subjective call:

Wigg's ban, and Sanders premature death, would have opened up places in the series for the two orginal reserves, possibly Karl Maier and Alan Graham, neither of whom would likely have made any real impact on the series.

Top three: Gundersen, Nielsen, S Moran

Top eight: Carter, Knudsen, King, Morton, Andersson

Qualifiers for 86: Ermolenko, Nieme, Cook reserves: Tatum, Pedersen.

Wildcards for 86: Lee, Shirra, K Moran Castagna (or Kasper or Muller?)

Hard to call, suspect Shirra would get one on basis of a season where he started terribly on his comeback from injury. Tatum to get a British wildcard, or would it be handed to Lee as one final chance? Or maybe Wigg or Doncaster? three Danes and three yanks already in the series, would they be gven another spot - if so Schwartz be rewarded for his consistency with a place? K Moran and Bo Petersen likely to finish not far off the top 8, would they be more likely to get a pick? Or Crump to give the Aussies a spot? Or Jan O, finishing maybe just a couple of spots outside in the GP challenge, and the youngest of those candidates?

The continental spot equally up for grabs. I'll go K Moran and Castagna, a mix of old and new, on the grounds I'll tip Moran to have finished 9th in the serie, and on box office appeal.

Edited by waihekeaces1
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86:

1 H Nielsen 12.40

2 E Gundersen 11.08

3 T Knudsen 10.02

4 S Moran 10.02

5 S Ermolenko 9.84

6 J O Pedersen 9.64

7 S Wigg 9.58

8 J Andersson 9.40

9 J Doncaster 9.37

10 C Morton 9.34

11 K Tatum 9.21

12 B Petersen 9.17

13 V Kuznetsov 9.10

14 N Evitts 9.08

15 K Carter (late)8.83

16 K Moran 8.82

17 J Nilsen 8.40

18 J Jorgensen 8.36

19 L King 7.86

20 Phil Collins 7.83

 

Hans-Erik yet again, though this time Hans well clear, with the highest “average” of the decade to date. Knudsen and S Moran swap positions, as Knudsen moves top three (by a whisker!), to give a Danish 1-2-3, the first time in the decade a nation had occupied all three top spots. Jan O Pedersen continues his progress towards the top, into 6th, in a year the Danes were unsurprisingly dominant.

Simon Wigg wasthe top Brit, narrowly ahead of Doncaster, Morton and Tatum. Evitts progressed from a decent rider to international quality as he moved into top 20 for the first time. The season also marked farewell, in horrific circumstances, to Kenny Carter while Mike Lee ended his last BL season down in 35th spot and Peter Collins bowed out in 50th – a sad way for England’s brightest talents of the previous decade to end their careers.

A couple of other veterans calling time on their BL careers were Bobby Schwartz (27th) and Phil Crump (39th) , both ranked in surprisingly low position, with Steve Baker (37th) overtaking Crump as top ranked Aussie. Mitch Shirra in 32nd was the top ranked kiwi, for the 4th straight year.

Young Swedes, Nilsen and Jonsson continued their progress into 17th and 24th respectively, while arguably the big surprise of the top 20 was Viktor Kuznetsov, the veteran Russian, in 13th on the back of his surprise 5th in the world final. The other surprise (for me) in the top 20 was Bo Petersen in 12th, based on a handful of international appearances after skipping the BL season.

The NL was arguably the strongest it had been, certainly within the decade, with a number of ex England internationals (Jessup, Simmons, L Collins,Kennett) dropping down. This was reflected in 10 NL riders ranked in the top 50, Jessup top of those 28th, while Paul Thorp’s world individual championship progress was rewarded with 3st place. Other young English NL stars to progress were Andrew Silver, who made his full international debut, in 33rd, Martin Dugard in at 43rd while Gary Havelock was at 60th.

 

One point to note is that after the shrinkage in 1985 to an 11 team BL, while the “scores” of the top riders remained relatively unchanged, the scores of those on the fringes of the top 20 dropped by around half a point – this reflects (imho) the fact that the talent in the BL was more concentrated, and as a result the weaker HL suffered declines in averages, which with BL averages being the “base” measurement for wighting other events, then flowed through to those events also.

 

GP series:

Hard to argue with the top five finishing in the same order as the rankings, though the battle for third would be tight, leaving Andersson, Tatum (into the series to replace Carter) Morton, King and Shirra likely to battle for the remaining spots on the top 8 (Kelly Moran in the mix too until his off track injury in Poland ended his season).

 

Top three: Nielsen, Gundersen, Knudsen

Top8: S Moran, Ermolenko, Andersson, Tatum, Morton

Qualifiers for 87: Pedersen, Nilsen, Evitts

Wildcards for 87: Wigg, King, Shirra, Dolomisiewicz

 

Wilcards – for Britain an equally compelling argument could be presented for Doncaster, but I think England skipper Wigg would edge it -.

King I think would be a shoe in for another spot, while the “token” continental wildcard may go to Dolomisiewicz, the first Pole to emerge in some time, even if the likes of Castagna, Kasper, Maier ,Kuznetsov have more compelling cases based on results.

The final spot also a tricky one. K Moran likely to have been well in the mix for top8 before injury, but would the fact he would only be in the series due to a wildcard, allied with the circumstances of his injury, count against him? Mitcxh Shirra to be a sole Australasia rep, or perhaps Baker, his world championship run gave indications of fulfilling the potential highlighted in his 1983 Euro U-21 champs victory. Maybe two Brits would be given spots, given that both Doncaster and Wigg outperformed any of the other candidates over the season, but perhaps unlikely that two wildcards would be given to the same nation. In the absence of a clear cut candidate, I’ll plump for Shirra on the grounds that I’ll pick him finishing 10th in the 86 series, and picking up a wilrdcard along with 9th place getter (King).

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Fascinating stuff Waihekaces.

 

Where did Marvyn Cox come in 1986? I'm guessing he would have been handicapped by a poor World Final performance, while his amazing run in the Golden Helmet (beating, amongst others, Gundersen (from the back at Oxford), Morton (from the back at Belle Vue) and Doncaster) wasn't enough to drag him up? By the end of that season, Cocker was one of the form riders in the world. I recall him and Hans passing Erik on either side at Cradley, as Oxford pegged back for a draw at Dudley Wood in the KO Cup Final.

 

All the best

Rob

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Fascinating stuff Waihekaces.

 

Where did Marvyn Cox come in 1986? I'm guessing he would have been handicapped by a poor World Final performance, while his amazing run in the Golden Helmet (beating, amongst others, Gundersen (from the back at Oxford), Morton (from the back at Belle Vue) and Doncaster) wasn't enough to drag him up? By the end of that season, Cocker was one of the form riders in the world. I recall him and Hans passing Erik on either side at Cradley, as Oxford pegged back for a draw at Dudley Wood in the KO Cup Final.

 

All the best

Rob

Hi Rob,

 

I personally felt that 'Cocker' didn't fulfil his true potential and 1986 really was his peak season. I realise that he achieved better averages during later years but his riding wasn't as spectacular or decisive as it could have been. I have on DVD many races featuring him later in his career and he wasn't quite the vintage rider of 86.

 

Regards

Edited by steve roberts

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Hi Rob,

 

I personally felt that 'Cocker' didn't fulfil his true potential and 1986 really was his peak season. I realise that he achieved better averages during later years but his riding wasn't as spectacular or decisive as it could have been. I have on DVD many races featuring him later in his career and he wasn't quite the vintage rider of 86.

 

Regards

 

Steve, I agree that his riding for the second half of 1986 was his peak. I remember the Midland Riders' Championship at Oxford, which had an awesome line-up that season. Cocker finished third behind Knudsen and Nielsen, but ahead of the likes of Gundersen, Wigg, Ermolenko, Pedersen and Tatum.

 

He was on fire in the closing months of that season. On paper, the Cheetahs had a weaker line-up than 1985. The unbeaten run in 1986 came about because Nielsen, Wigg & Cox were all at the top of their game. Even when a team picked up a lead against us, it was impossible to maintain it in the closing stages of the meeting.

 

All the best

Rob

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Fascinating stuff Waihekaces.

 

Where did Marvyn Cox come in 1986? I'm guessing he would have been handicapped by a poor World Final performance, while his amazing run in the Golden Helmet (beating, amongst others, Gundersen (from the back at Oxford), Morton (from the back at Belle Vue) and Doncaster) wasn't enough to drag him up? By the end of that season, Cocker was one of the form riders in the world. I recall him and Hans passing Erik on either side at Cradley, as Oxford pegged back for a draw at Dudley Wood in the KO Cup Final.

 

All the best

Rob

Was a little surprised myself he didn't scrape into top 20, he was 23rd. Golden helmet races weren't included in my stats. I suspect excluding the world final he may have finished a few spots higher, will check later.

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Cox is 19th if u remove the world final performance.

Interestingly, if u remove the world final results gundersen finishes 2nd in the rankings only in 86 (for years completed so far). 84 &85 s Moran overtakes him and 83 siglos does. 82 is the only year the top rider would change, Carter ranking ahead of pen hall.

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Cox is 19th if u remove the world final performance.

 

I thought the poor World Final might be dragging him down a bit. I realise it's a ranking over the whole season, but Cocker's form in the latter half of 1986 really took off and he was regularly taking points off the very best. The Oxford team of '86 wasn't as strong all-round as Cradley '83, but the reason Cradley lost twice in the BL while Oxford remained unbeaten was how well Nielsen, Wigg and Cox scored as a heat-leader duo, once the BL campaign started. Oxford fell behind at both Cradley and Reading, used tactical subs, and ended up winning both meetings with a race to spare.

 

Interestingly, if u remove the world final results gundersen finishes 2nd in the rankings only in 86 (for years completed so far). 84 &85 s Moran overtakes him and 83 siglos does. 82 is the only year the top rider would change, Carter ranking ahead of pen hall.

All interesting stuff. Shawn Moran could be quite a rider. Wasn't it in the 1984 ICF where he was playing with the opposition? He let Kelly by in one race, but still won the meeting. And yet I also remember him at the 1987 BLRC. Five rides, five stone lasts.

 

PS I reckon Bruce would have still been World Champ in '82, even in a Grand Prix series. He was a more effective performer than Carter on the big stage.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited by lucifer sam

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I thought the poor World Final might be dragging him down a bit. I realise it's a ranking over the whole season, but Cocker's form in the latter half of 1986 really took off and he was regularly taking points off the very best. The Oxford team of '86 wasn't as strong all-round as Cradley '83, but the reason Cradley lost twice in the BL while Oxford remained unbeaten was how well Nielsen, Wigg and Cox scored as a heat-leader duo, once the BL campaign started. Oxford fell behind at both Cradley and Reading, used tactical subs, and ended up winning both meetings with a race to spare.

 

All interesting stuff. Shawn Moran could be quite a rider. Wasn't it in the 1984 ICF where he was playing with the opposition? He let Kelly by in one race, but still won the meeting. And yet I also remember him at the 1987 BLRC. Five rides, five stone lasts.

 

PS I reckon Bruce would have still been World Champ in '82, even in a Grand Prix series. He was a more effective performer than Carter on the big stage.

 

All the best

Rob

Hi Rob,

 

The Cradley team of 1983 weren't required to operate with a junior at number seven therefore Oxford's team compares very well under the regulations and/or restraints operating at that time.

 

The inclusion of Per Sorensen is when Oxford's season really took off as it enabled Nigel De'Ath to ride as a reserve giving the team a better all round balance.

 

Personally I felt that the 1972 Belle Vue team took some beating for overall strength however it's difficult to compare teams from different eras as rider control/points limits decided team make ups and promotions were only able to put out the best depending on what the rules specified in any one season.

 

Regards

Edited by steve roberts

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