Boring

[BWitcher 12,453]

With respect...'That many' are in the minority that still attend every week.

 

I will agree people started to leave before Laydowns were introduced....but what caused that? I'll tell you...Slick tracks.

 

Riders like Ole Olsen, who imo, regardless of how good a rider he was, have had too much control in producing tracks that gave less entertaining racing.

Laydowns were a knock on effect to these slick tracks, as they rode them better.

 

Fans started to leave as Speedway became less entertaining as a spectacle...and the trend has spiralled downward.

 

There are a minority of die hard fans like yourself, who obviously think it is just as good...but if you really think Speedway can survive in the same way as it is now, and run in the same vein, then with respect, I think you have your head in the sand.

 

Yet all the available evidence shows that what you are saying is NOT true.

 

All of the footage from yesteryear shows that racing back then was as it is now, some great races, but many, many from the gate races.

[Gresham 928]

 

Yet all the available evidence shows that what you are saying is NOT true.

 

All of the footage from yesteryear shows that racing back then was as it is now, some great races, but many, many from the gate races.

It's a completely different type of racing...slick tracks are completely different from deep grippy tracks.

 

You may not get the passing as much as you think...but the racing was entertaining...because the riders had to ride the track differently.

 

The bikes were set up differently, and the tracks rode differently...all the available evidence also shows that.

 

Throttle control was different, how you rode into a corner and exited, bikes set up different etc,etc.

 

It's completely different to how it used to be.

 

Watching racing on a grippy track is entertaining, as you could see riders using there skill to try different moves.

 

Nowadays...it's wind it on, hang on...and if you drift off the racing line you are pretty much buggered.

[Star Lady 5,400]

 

Yet all the available evidence shows that what you are saying is NOT true.

 

All of the footage from yesteryear shows that racing back then was as it is now, some great races, but many, many from the gate races.

 

 

That may well be the case but the peripherals that went with it were so much more entertaining.

 

Norris and Dugard baiting fans at Lynn was worth the admission alone.

 

Shane Parker at Ipswich commandeering the tractor.

 

Hancock & Hamill (neither of whom I like particularly) guaranteed to team ride, brilliantly, at least once a meeting.

 

Winning riders did a lap of honour almost without exception.

 

Losing riders lost their rag quite obviously, stomping their way back to the pits.

 

Joe Screen and his magnificent wheelies.

 

 

Speedway admission should never be about 15 heats alone, entertainment has to be provided as well. The onus of that falls as much on the riders as it does on the promoters.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Star Lady

[steve roberts 9,246]

It's a completely different type of racing...slick tracks are completely different from deep grippy tracks.

 

You may not get the passing as much as you think...but the racing was entertaining...because the riders had to ride the track differently.

 

The bikes were set up differently, and the tracks rode differently...all the available evidence also shows that.

 

Throttle control was different, how you rode into a corner and exited, bikes set up different etc,etc.

 

It's completely different to how it used to be.

 

Watching racing on a grippy track is entertaining, as you could see riders using there skill to try different moves.

 

Nowadays...it's wind it on, hang on...and if you drift off the racing line you are pretty much buggered.

When I first went to speedway the behaviour of bikes were very different to when I stopped going (thirty year gap) To begin with riders would rev the engines whilst waiting for the tapes to rise. Now it's a case of turning the throttle full on. Riders would use the throttle to adjust the speed when entering the bend and cornering...constantly tweaking. Now it's just full on with perhaps a slight tweak when entering a bend. Riders starting to adjust their styles tending to leg trail rather than the old fashion foot forward style which makes altering direction when cornering more difficult.

 

When I tried riding a two valve Jawa you could sense how heavy the bike was and required much throttle control to keep the bike going in the direction you so wished. Apparently the JAP was a real difficult ride and without the proper respect would only want to take you out to the fence!

Edited April 20, 2016 by steve roberts

[New Science 1,059]

 

Atmosphere is as huge a problem than anything else. For me proof was in the pudding i.e. World Cup meetings at King's Lynn. On the backstraight a lot of us were bouncing up and down singing songs. Now, if I try to do that at King's Lynn for a league match it will be a case of "who's that d!k". Even a bit of shouting you get told to "wind it in soon".

In general, Norfolk folk are a boring bunch and difficult to 'fire up'. This is also proven with the football at Norwich City. The dreary "on the ball city" is sung and to increase noise they get given clappers. CLAPPERS ffs. Norfolk for ya.

 

After all that, for me you are correct. What makes speedway boring?-

 

Watch a race - have a chat

Watch a race - listen to crappie music

Watch a race - stand and stare bored

Watch a race - go have a sh!+ to kill more boredom

etc etc

 

I'd like to have some Norfolk folk that feel like me and want to get a bit singy shouty as I'm quite energetic and need to be doing something all the time. No matter how crap the racing is it would still be a good night

 

Absolutely spot on

 

"BRING BACK GRIPPY TRACKS"

Lets be honest the atmosphere at league speedway is gone forever. What should be and used happen is

Have the riders parade

Watch heat 1

Talk about what you have just seen and look forward to what will happen in heat 2

etc etc etc

When nothing is happening on track is it any wonder people are standing round with their hands in their pockets between heats.

You can sing songs,do mexican waves ,do congas whatever you want it wont make any difference.

The only thing keeping some people going is the social side of seeing their mates who they only see at the speedway.

 

I think for everyone Sidders speedway was better in years gone by for reasons that have been brought up many times.. we remember the good stuff etc..

 

However, one of the biggest factors that made it all seem so much more exciting in years gone by were the larger crowds. The bigger the crowd, the better the meeting seems. Wembley 1981 is the biggest example of that.. take that exact same meeting, run it in front of 500 people and nobody would call it a great meeting.. but the racing wouldn't have changed.

When I think about 81 the first thing that comes to mind is the 2 too terrific heats between Penhall, Knudsen and Olsen.Not sure how racing of this calibre can be described as boring !

Good points...

 

As it appears ad nauseum, everyone says the meetings we remember most fondly are the ones with the big crowd in attendance and the subsequent atmosphere it brought, which ultimately made the racing seem better..

 

Yet the sport sets itself up with admission fees that by their very level will far too often, preclude the possibility of a 'big crowd' watching it...

 

As has been shown on many occasions at various tracks..

 

Let people in for free = A massive crowd attends (so it shows the support for the Sport is still out there locally and nationally)..

 

Let people in for a tenner = A much bigger crowd than normal attends (so it shows that the 'price point' is significantly important to the fans of the Sport)

 

Let people in for Circa £17 = We get what we have today (so it shows the support don't see this as a value for money price point and as the admission fee grows the crowd levels drop)..

 

A big crowd engenders atmosphere which by definition lends itself to people returning to sample 'more of the same'. Thus a 'virtuous circle' gets created...

 

A small crowd engenders zero atmosphere which by definition lends itself to people not returning to sample 'more of the same'. Thus a 'vicious circle' gets created..

 

A 'vicious circle' that Speedway has been in for the past 20 years or so...

 

Maybe though, it is happy with what it has?

 

ie fewer fans but more sponsors covering rider costs? It certainly means less focus on the need to Promote the sport as most sponsors seem to be fans themselves, with many seemingly in it just for the 'kudos' rather than having a specific product to sell locally off the back of their sponsorship, thus meaning crowd levels won't necessarily need to be part of any marketing plan for them...

 

Maybe it is just us who feel more need to attend and the Promoter's are quite content with what they have?

 

Certainly 20 years of not reversing the trend of diminishing crowds would suggest that they are...?

If letting people in for £10 is the answer why was there not a huge crowd present for the Leicester - Swindon match when admission was a tenner

With respect...lets think about that for a moment.

 

How can a sport like speedway, that thrives on passing and racing on a grippy surface, that gives various racing lines, allow that to happen?

 

The laydown engine cannot perform well on deeper grippy surfaces.

 

It's lower centre of gravity, higher revs, produces a wheel that wants to spin furiously on a slicker track. Hence why the riders struggle to race on grippier surfaces.

 

The riders prefer riding on such engines...the promotors prefer it as well, because costs are less in providing shale and track maintenance.

 

So the sport has made things easier and cheaper in one way...yet more expensive in another, because these engines have to be serviced more regularly because of the way they are tuned.

 

These types of tracks are also more susceptible to wet conditions...so Promotors lose more revenue to rain offs...and also fans get fed up with this and find other things to do.

 

In doing so...they've created a problem. Cheaper track costs, but higher expenses for wages and engine services. Plus rain offs.

 

All this has led to less entertaining racing...hence fans leaving in their droves.

 

So where does all the money have to come from to pay the riders and cover all the costs?

 

The Promotors and riders have created their own nightmare.

 

People are talking about how much it is to go and watch. Even if you let the public in for free, you may get some take you up on the offer...but after a while, they'd get used to it and find something else to do...because the chances of seeing some decent racing are becoming far more elusive.

 

People want to see entertaining racing with mistakes and overtaking, on various racing lines.

 

It is.... that simple.

Forget lay downs as being the end of grippy tracks, the new silencers post 2010 were the end of grippy tracks

 

Yet there are many who have attended the sport for a large number of years who say otherwise.

 

Let's also not forget that the mass exodus began long before laydowns etc were introduced.

Bwitcher if you watch your speedway at Monmore you must admit it is nowhere near as good as it was pre 2011

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

Bwitcher if you watch your speedway at Monmore you must admit it is nowhere near as good as it was pre 2011

 

I agree the new silencers have made quite a difference.

 

That is far more recent though, long after the 'big decline'.

[Leicester Hunter 381]

 

When I think about 81 the first thing that comes to mind is the 2 too terrific heats between Penhall, Knudsen and Olsen.Not sure how racing of this calibre can be described as boring !

 

Yes, you're right, those two races couldn't possibly be described as boring, but you've highlighted a big problem as well. There were a total of 21 races in that World Final including the runoff for second place between Olsen and Knudsen. How many other races from that Final have been mentioned over the years? Not many, if any, because the racing wasn't that special. There was the usual big Wembley crowd and the atmosphere was terrific, but Bwitcher's right. In front of a typical crowd as attracted at matches today, it would have been described as humdrum at best.

 

In all my years following speedway, I've witnessed the good, the bad, the indifferent and the downright appalling types of fixture. The sport today is really no different to when I saw my first live meeting in September 1976. Leicester v Coventry and the Bees needed a 5-1 to win on the last heat. They got it courtesy of Ole Olsen and 'Mr Coventry' Nigel Boocock, who rode an absolute blinder and went from last to first, all played out in front of a big derby crowd and a great atmosphere. You could say I was hooked from then on....

 

However, as the years progress, people change, priorities change. I now have to run my own home and have bills to pay. The disposable income has lessened significantly with much increased travel and entrance costs. And I've found over the last year or so, the last thing I want after a long day at work is to rush my dinner, and have a git of a drive over part of the biggest urban conurbation in the Midlands. It's a shame, because there is still some good speedway to be seen out there, and it can occur just when you least expect it.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Leicester Hunter

[ColinMills 1,728]

whilst i wouldnt personally watch NL/PL racing, through choice, i did witness (on video) some great racing at linlithgo

, mainly through racing mistakes i may add

[mikebv 10,273]

 

If letting people in for £10 is the answer why was there not a huge crowd present for the Leicester - Swindon match when admission was a tenner

Because it was live on Sky?

 

Because Leicester's team had just lost the last two matches?

 

Because Leicester's team is widely regarded as the worst in the League?

 

Because Leicester's reputation for poor quality racing goes before it?

 

Because the weather was a bit ropey around Leicester and Speedway has a novel way of not giving it's customers their money back if the meeting doesn't go ahead or only partially gets completed?

 

Because maybe even a tenner is seen by many as 'too much'?

Edited April 20, 2016 by mikebv

[SCB 0]

 

 

That may well be the case but the peripherals that went with it were so much more entertaining.

 

Norris and Dugard baiting fans at Lynn was worth the admission alone.

 

Shane Parker at Ipswich commandeering the tractor.

 

Hancock & Hamill (neither of whom I like particularly) guaranteed to team ride, brilliantly, at least once a meeting.

 

Winning riders did a lap of honour almost without exception.

 

Losing riders lost their rag quite obviously, stomping their way back to the pits.

 

Joe Screen and his magnificent wheelies.

 

 

Speedway admission should never be about 15 heats alone, entertainment has to be provided as well. The onus of that falls as much on the riders as it does on the promoters.

Agreed. 5 year old me love Joe Screen because he did a whole lap on one wheel. I didn't care much for the racing but that was amazing, it mean that Joe was a favourite of mine all his career, pretty much off the back of seeing him do wheelies all the time. OK as I grew up I also realised he was a pretty exciting racer too.

 

Then a few years back if you asked me the best meeting I'd seen I'd have told you Newport vs Glasgow in 1999. Newport were 8 down going into heat 14, so Newport put Craig Watson off 15 metres for double points. Glasgow Sean Coutrney made the gate ahead of Frank Smart but on lap 2 Frank went inside Sean and Sean fell off. Ref excluded Courtney, all hell broke loose on the pits bend with riders, mechanics, promoters etc all fighting. Crowd went wild, lapped it up. In the re-run Newport got an 8-1 and needed a 4-2 in heat 15. We somehow got the unlikely 4-2 in heat 15 to record a 47-46 win. It was brilliant, a win from nowhere with a fight and a last heat decider. I watched it back a couple of years ago. A totally rubbish meeting with 2 passes (one of them being Wato from 15 metres on a Glagsow reserve) but my brain told me it was one of the best meetings I had seen because of the 15 metre double, the fight and the last heat decider.

 

It's NOT just about 15 heats and that is where speedway promoters are going wrong.

[Gresham 928]

Agreed. 5 year old me love Joe Screen because he did a whole lap on one wheel. I didn't care much for the racing but that was amazing, it mean that Joe was a favourite of mine all his career, pretty much off the back of seeing him do wheelies all the time. OK as I grew up I also realised he was a pretty exciting racer too.

 

Then a few years back if you asked me the best meeting I'd seen I'd have told you Newport vs Glasgow in 1999. Newport were 8 down going into heat 14, so Newport put Craig Watson off 15 metres for double points. Glasgow Sean Coutrney made the gate ahead of Frank Smart but on lap 2 Frank went inside Sean and Sean fell off. Ref excluded Courtney, all hell broke loose on the pits bend with riders, mechanics, promoters etc all fighting. Crowd went wild, lapped it up. In the re-run Newport got an 8-1 and needed a 4-2 in heat 15. We somehow got the unlikely 4-2 in heat 15 to record a 47-46 win. It was brilliant, a win from nowhere with a fight and a last heat decider. I watched it back a couple of years ago. A totally rubbish meeting with 2 passes (one of them being Wato from 15 metres on a Glagsow reserve) but my brain told me it was one of the best meetings I had seen because of the 15 metre double, the fight and the last heat decider.

 

It's NOT just about 15 heats and that is where speedway promoters are going wrong.

I can remember there being a 'competition' between riders before the second half at Eastville, where riders attempted to complete a lap on one wheel...as a very young lad, I also was enthralled by this. Thanks for reminding me :-)

[Davet 52]

When I first went to Speedway in the '60s it is fair to say that at that time most people went to experience the noise, the smell and the crashes rather than the quality of the racing (which is probably as good as it ever was tbh). I guess it attracted a similar crowd as stock cars, and for the same reason. Nobody would go to watch stocks for the quality of racing!

 

The present day, sanitised sport has all but eliminated the noise and the smell, and much of the appeal has gone with it. The appearance of modern bikes is also boring and uninteresting compared to the old JAPs with their massive engines and tiny fuel tanks.

 

I don't know what the answer is though - NIMBYism and regulation means the sound of 4 unsilenced machines will never return whilst H and S means that crashes result in a 20 to 30 minute delay in proceedings. The introduction of rev limiters has been suggested and this could, in a roundabout way be of benefit as it would lead engine manufacturers to develop machines which peak at lower revs rather than restrict existing motors before they peak. These motors in turn would be better suited to grippier tracks!

[Tsunami 10,219]

Agreed. 5 year old me love Joe Screen because he did a whole lap on one wheel. I didn't care much for the racing but that was amazing, it mean that Joe was a favourite of mine all his career, pretty much off the back of seeing him do wheelies all the time. OK as I grew up I also realised he was a pretty exciting racer too.

 

Then a few years back if you asked me the best meeting I'd seen I'd have told you Newport vs Glasgow in 1999. Newport were 8 down going into heat 14, so Newport put Craig Watson off 15 metres for double points. Glasgow Sean Coutrney made the gate ahead of Frank Smart but on lap 2 Frank went inside Sean and Sean fell off. Ref excluded Courtney, all hell broke loose on the pits bend with riders, mechanics, promoters etc all fighting. Crowd went wild, lapped it up. In the re-run Newport got an 8-1 and needed a 4-2 in heat 15. We somehow got the unlikely 4-2 in heat 15 to record a 47-46 win. It was brilliant, a win from nowhere with a fight and a last heat decider. I watched it back a couple of years ago. A totally rubbish meeting with 2 passes (one of them being Wato from 15 metres on a Glagsow reserve) but my brain told me it was one of the best meetings I had seen because of the 15 metre double, the fight and the last heat decider.

 

It's NOT just about 15 heats and that is where speedway FANS are going wrong.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Tsunami

[Daniel Smith 5,660]

 

Agreed. 5 year old me love Joe Screen because he did a whole lap on one wheel. I didn't care much for the racing but that was amazing, it mean that Joe was a favourite of mine all his career, pretty much off the back of seeing him do wheelies all the time. OK as I grew up I also realised he was a pretty exciting racer too.

 

Then a few years back if you asked me the best meeting I'd seen I'd have told you Newport vs Glasgow in 1999. Newport were 8 down going into heat 14, so Newport put Craig Watson off 15 metres for double points. Glasgow Sean Coutrney made the gate ahead of Frank Smart but on lap 2 Frank went inside Sean and Sean fell off. Ref excluded Courtney, all hell broke loose on the pits bend with riders, mechanics, promoters etc all fighting. Crowd went wild, lapped it up. In the re-run Newport got an 8-1 and needed a 4-2 in heat 15. We somehow got the unlikely 4-2 in heat 15 to record a 47-46 win. It was brilliant, a win from nowhere with a fight and a last heat decider. I watched it back a couple of years ago. A totally rubbish meeting with 2 passes (one of them being Wato from 15 metres on a Glagsow reserve) but my brain told me it was one of the best meetings I had seen because of the 15 metre double, the fight and the last heat decider.

 

It's NOT just about 15 heats and that is where speedway FANS are going wrong.

 

 

You should elaborate as your edit makes no sense?

[mikebv 10,273]

 

You should elaborate as your edit makes no sense?

Presume it means its the fans fault for complaining/not attending as they simply don't understand how great a night at the speedway actually is...?

 

Does David Brent run Speedway?

 

Gareth get me my guitar!😀