foamfence 2,917 Posted June 16, 2016 It has all been suggested and even trialled before but most lower clubs didn't want to go up because it would cost more and most upper clubs didn't want to go down and probably lose some of their riders and some of their fans, so it all fell through. The reason MOST clubs are in their current leagues is down to cost, obviously a couple of premier league clubs could afford to move up, but they don't seem to want to. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevH 257 Posted June 16, 2016 It has all been suggested and even trialled before but most lower clubs didn't want to go up because it would cost more and most upper clubs didn't want to go down and probably lose some of their riders and some of their fans, so it all fell through. The reason MOST clubs are in their current leagues is down to cost, obviously a couple of premier league clubs could afford to move up, but they don't seem to want to. This is maybe something that could be addressed by sponsorship in a similar way that football's Premier League operates? If, and it's a big if, a substantial sponsor could be found, the finances from that are proportioned according to final league positions. In that way, far greater financial rewards are to be found in the higher league, which negates the higher operating costs. On the other side of the coin, a team who find themselves relegated may lose some fans, and therefore income, but the lower operating costs could allow them to survive and try to regain their top division status. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted June 16, 2016 finance aside, promotion/relegation is perfect for fans, it makes every match meaningful whether you in top or bottom half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) It has all been suggested and even trialled before but most lower clubs didn't want to go up because it would cost more and most upper clubs didn't want to go down and probably lose some of their riders and some of their fans, so it all fell through. The reason MOST clubs are in their current leagues is down to cost, obviously a couple of premier league clubs could afford to move up, but they don't seem to want to. All you do is run both leagues on PL converted averages. Season 1 the PL has a 45 point limit and the EL 55. The following season you have points limit of 42 in both leagues. The conversion rate would be about 0.9. You wouldn't actually have a "stronger" league then, 10% isn't a lot but allows some improvement when you move up but more realistically when moving up a league you'd just be able to keep last years league winning team if you wanted. Same for the team dropping down. It would also make an inter-league KOC viable. The only issue I see is that at the moment the average EL clubs has what, 3 double uppers? 2 draft rider and 1 other. That means of the 8 EL teams they will have to find 3 rider riders eachs, thats 24 new riders. That either 30 new NL riders (not already riding EL or PL) or 30 new foreigners (by the time some riders retire/quit). I just don't see where they're going to come from! Edited June 16, 2016 by SCB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
New Science 1,059 Posted June 16, 2016 So we are going to have a full season of fixtures the promotion / relegation will be sorted out by the lottery of a play off ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted June 16, 2016 1 ...2 nights racing a week, promotion/relegation, no guest riders, all of a sudden I feel optimistic...could this feeling be the start of a upturn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted June 16, 2016 All you do is run both leagues on PL converted averages. Season 1 the PL has a 45 point limit and the EL 55. The following season you have points limit of 42 in both leagues. The conversion rate would be about 0.9. You wouldn't actually have a "stronger" league then, 10% isn't a lot but allows some improvement when you move up but more realistically when moving up a league you'd just be able to keep last years league winning team if you wanted. Same for the team dropping down. It would also make an inter-league KOC viable. The only issue I see is that at the moment the average EL clubs has what, 3 double uppers? 2 draft rider and 1 other. That means of the 8 EL teams they will have to find 3 rider riders eachs, thats 24 new riders. That either 30 new NL riders (not already riding EL or PL) or 30 new foreigners (by the time some riders retire/quit). I just don't see where they're going to come from! 6 man teams ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 16, 2016 It has all been suggested and even trialled before but most lower clubs didn't want to go up because it would cost more and most upper clubs didn't want to go down and probably lose some of their riders and some of their fans, so it all fell through. The reason MOST clubs are in their current leagues is down to cost, obviously a couple of premier league clubs could afford to move up, but they don't seem to want to. It all depends on the costs of the higher division. Somehow I suspect they will not be the same as the present Elite League otherwise the PL clubs would have rejected this scheme out of hand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted June 16, 2016 6 man teams ? D'oh! Of course! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arson fire 4,785 Posted June 16, 2016 Would Berwick still be sh!te like every year though?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted June 17, 2016 All you do is run both leagues on PL converted averages. Season 1 the PL has a 45 point limit and the EL 55. The following season you have points limit of 42 in both leagues. The conversion rate would be about 0.9. You wouldn't actually have a "stronger" league then, 10% isn't a lot but allows some improvement when you move up but more realistically when moving up a league you'd just be able to keep last years league winning team if you wanted. Same for the team dropping down. It would also make an inter-league KOC viable. The only issue I see is that at the moment the average EL clubs has what, 3 double uppers? 2 draft rider and 1 other. That means of the 8 EL teams they will have to find 3 rider riders eachs, thats 24 new riders. That either 30 new NL riders (not already riding EL or PL) or 30 new foreigners (by the time some riders retire/quit). I just don't see where they're going to come from! This is something that crossed my mind...are we going to have doubling up still? Between EL and PL with 12 teams in each...that's 144 riders needed. I'm guessing you are going to get at least 3 to 4 riders from many PL teams moving up to teams in the EL...and heat leaders from the NL riding at No. 6 for PL sides. It is one of the things that annoys me...and I presume many fans...but I guess riders need to race and make a living. Not enough fixtures to ride for just one team. As Rosco recently said...the 'Elite' league...is just a name, that doesn't reflect the quality in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allthegearbutnaeidea 1,734 Posted June 17, 2016 Would Berwick still be sh!te like every year though?? OI leave it out yeah 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,955 Posted June 17, 2016 It didn't work before and won't work again whilst there are insufficient teams wanting to race at the top level. Promotion and relegation is only viable when more teams want to race in a league than there are available places. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted June 17, 2016 It didn't work before and won't work again whilst there are insufficient teams wanting to race at the top level. Promotion and relegation is only viable when more teams want to race in a league than there are available places. BUT if the gap between the two leagues becomes barely discernible then that argument won't apply. At the very least it will mean the paying public will see different teams each year. We have all moaned and moaned about the current state of affairs but serious efforts are being made to try and make some significant changes and surely we should applaud that. I also understand that the task of re-writing the rulebook is being tasked to a number of senior referees, as close to an independent body as we are likely to get. One can only hope that the promoters both individually and collectively accept what they come up with. There cannot be anyone on either side of the fence who doesn't recognise that British speedway desperately requires a revamp and this may just be the first step. Of course, theory and reality are not always the same thing which is why the trials taking place are so important. Too often in the recent past an unworkable rule is simply amended and supplemented by another rather than starting from scratch. There is no magic wand that will solve all the ills at a stroke. But let's try and be positive that a new era might be forthcoming. All we will require then is someone to sort out the weather. Have we ever had so many postponements at this time of the year? No doubt someone out there will have the answer. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted June 17, 2016 It didn't work before and won't work again whilst there are insufficient teams wanting to race at the top level. Promotion and relegation is only viable when more teams want to race in a league than there are available places. If that's the case, why are all the promotors going to the trials and giving feedback? Why are they going to the next trial as well? If promotors don't wish their team to go up...then why not say now, and stop wasting time and energy and money? Perhaps the new system will be tried before they introduce Promotion and relegation. Or as Phillip said above...the Leagues made more in conjunction with one another? Lets face it...it's not that far off now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
