mikebv 10,273 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) The rules don`t say you can`t use the normal facilities- just you can`t sign someone- so guest and R/R if 2 of top 5 are out.Get that, but what if two (or even three) more of our riders get injured? Do we run with a three man team and RR for the other four?😁 Injuries happen often in Speedway so it would be no surprise to see more riders sitting out the season. No signings allowed appears to be somewhat of a daft rule in a Sport so impacted by the high risk of injury... Understand why the rule was brought in, but it's really using a 'sledgehammer to crack a walnut'.. Everyone could see Tai last year was several levels up from the rider he replaced but Speedways slavish 'average following' suggested otherwise.. Some common sense decision making then, by 'whoever' makes these astonishing decisions, would have meant no need for an equally unsuitable ruling this year... Edited August 2, 2017 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted August 2, 2017 Get that, but what if two (or even three) more of our riders get injured? Do we run with a three man team and RR for the other four?😁 Injuries happen often in Speedway so it would be no surprise to see more riders sitting out the season. No signings allowed appears to be somewhat of a daft rule in a Sport so impacted by the high risk of injury... Understand why the rule is brought it, but it's really using a 'sledgehammer to crack a walnut'.. Everyone could see Tai last year was several levels up from the rider he replaced but Speedways slavish average following suggested otherwise.. Some common sense decision making then by 'whoever' makes these astonishing decisions would have meant no need for an equally unsuitable ruling this year... Can only use r/r for 1 rider, all other injuries covered by guest facility Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted August 2, 2017 Not sure why you are quoting Lindback. He was bought in as cover for Andersen who had a season ending hand injury caused coincidentally by one Max Fricke at Leicester. Think you should use the Wolverhampton/Woffinden swap as the example. Brought in to replace Kylmakorpi with the sole purpose of strengthening before the playoffs. That is the very reason the rules were changed. Not Lindback for an injured rider. not true Steve. There are two rule changes this season: first one is the early deadline of 31st July for any changes. That one is brought in to prevent moves like the Wolves Tai for Joonas swap. However, the rule change which impacts Belle Vue is the removal of the provision for changes after the deadline in case of injury. That change is clearly brought in as a response to last year, when Poole replaced Hans with Lindback due to Hans's "season ending" injury, which proved to be a misnomer as he raced again overseas. Get that, but what if two (or even three) more of our riders get injured? Do we run with a three man team and RR for the other four? well obviously you don't get it, as he explained what would happen in that situation but you've asked the same question If you had two injuries you run RR and a guest. If you have 3 injuries, you run RR and two guests etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Lindbacks first meeting was the playoff semi final, Woffinden was brought in 5 or 6 meetings before the end of the season and before we had even qualified for them. Plus Kylmakorpi had been out for a month with a bad injury and his first meeting back got him 0 points at home. There was also much debate about Andersens season ending injury if I remember correctly. Strange how people see things how they want to!!!Considering Andersen never rode again last season bar one aborted effort, it is safe to assume that Lindback coming in was a genuine injury replacement. Woffinden on the other hand was Wolves strengthening up for the playoffs and the sole reason the rules were changed in the winter. Edited August 2, 2017 by Steve Shovlar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,093 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) not true Steve. There are two rule changes this season: first one is the early deadline of 31st July for any changes. That one is brought in to prevent moves like the Wolves Tai for Joonas swap. However, the rule change which impacts Belle Vue is the removal of the provision for changes after the deadline in case of injury. That change is clearly brought in as a response to last year, when Poole replaced Hans with Lindback due to Hans's "season ending" injury, which proved to be a misnomer as he raced again overseas. well obviously you don't get it, as he explained what would happen in that situation but you've asked the same question If you had two injuries you run RR and a guest. If you have 3 injuries, you run RR and two guests etc. Hans only raced once which was a mistake and didn't ride again. Edited August 2, 2017 by foreverblue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted August 2, 2017 Considering Andersen never rode again last season bar one aborted effort, it is safe to assume that Lindback coming in was a genuine injury replacement. Woffinden on the other hand was Wolves strengthening up for the playoffs and the sole reason the rules were changed in the winter. steve - can you confirm how you believe removing the rule which allowed injury replacements after the transfer deadline is in anyway related to Tai coming into replace Joonas at Wolves? As opposed to the post deadline injury replacement of Lindback for Hans? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skidder1 7,636 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) I'm sure BT Sport will be delighted to show their first play-offs with teams potentially full of guests and r/r?! Madness. Edited August 2, 2017 by Skidder1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,273 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) So potentially the Aces (or anyone else) could end up with a team of three Guests and RR in the Play off Final if say four riders got injured...? If so, could they then cherry pick their riders based on which other team they race against in the Final? ie run with one RR and three guests who are track specialists at the Final opponents track for the away leg, and RR and three different guests who ride well around the NSS for the home leg? Wouldnt be allowed to happen surely? If so, it must be better for the team to sign some bona fide replacements for the credibilty purposes of the Sport...? Edited August 2, 2017 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,723 Posted August 2, 2017 So potentially the Aces (or anyone else) could end up with a team of three Guests and RR in the Play off Final if say four riders got injured...? If so, could they then cherry pick their riders based on which other team they race against in the Final? ie run with one RR and three guests who are track specialists at the Final opponents track for the away leg, and RR and three different guests who ride well around the NSS for the home leg? Wouldnt be allowed to happen surely? If so, it must be better for the team to sign some bona fide replacements for the credibilty purposes of the Sport...? not as simple as that and I quote 18.12.6 No Rider, whose Team is in the Play-Offs may appear as a Guest in the Play-Offs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aces51 2,778 Posted August 2, 2017 When you get to the final there is only one other team in the play offs so you have a fairly wide choice from which to choose track specialists. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,273 Posted August 2, 2017 not as simple as that and I quote 18.12.6 No Rider, whose Team is in the Play-Offs may appear as a Guest in the Play-Offs.[/size] But still four teams with which to cherry pick from on a horses for courses basis? Got to be more credible for a team to make some signings than run with a "guest riddled" team in a Final surely? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coventry1963 99 Posted August 2, 2017 18.12.6 seems to suggest that once a team reaches the play-offs then none of those riders can guest. i.e. Four teams in play-offs excludes all members of those four teams guesting in any play-off match - or is that too logical an interpretation of said rule? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
szkocjasid 3,023 Posted August 2, 2017 So basically the Aces have to ride the rest of the season with a 6 man team ?, What a joke this sport as become But surely the Promoters knew that was possible when they voted in the rules at the AGM! They've left no provisions for injury replacements after July, so means there will be more guests & r/r! If promoters couldn't forsee that happening, they have only themselves to blame! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted August 2, 2017 So potentially the Aces (or anyone else) could end up with a team of three Guests and RR in the Play off Final if say four riders got injured...? If so, could they then cherry pick their riders based on which other team they race against in the Final? ie run with one RR and three guests who are track specialists at the Final opponents track for the away leg, and RR and three different guests who ride well around the NSS for the home leg? Wouldnt be allowed to happen surely? If so, it must be better for the team to sign some bona fide replacements for the credibilty purposes of the Sport...? :shock: What is that in Speedway terms. The Sport hasn't got any these days. :sad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisa-colette 6,026 Posted August 2, 2017 18.12.6 seems to suggest that once a team reaches the play-offs then none of those riders can guest. i.e. Four teams in play-offs excludes all members of those four teams guesting in any play-off match - or is that too logical an interpretation of said rule?I'm pretty sure that's the case! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
