Whos Left?

[eaglesno1 43]

 

I am putting a case that the averages system used in speedway can penalise better scorers and allow those of lower quality and ability to be allowed to hold down a team place.

At the moment, David Mason with a 6.54 average cannot be placed in a team. How many riders with lower averages, experience and ability have found places for the 2017 season - far too many IMO.

But there are still team places left and how do you know David Mason hasn't already got one but it just hasn't been announced yet?

[John Leslie 3,213]

Gustix is entitled to be keen on any rider, (David Mason in this case),,even if the majority are not of the same opinion ,,and while a bit stuck in the past,he still makes a valuable contribution to speedway threads...And by the way Gustix,..David Mason could still get a team place this season..

You need to read back a bit. No one has offered any opinion on whether they are keen on David Mason or not.

 

The thing is, Gustix made a silly claim that 25(ish) of last years NL riders (presumably including David Mason) won't be able to get a place in this year's NL due to the points limit being wrong. This led him to the equally silly and erroneous claim that the NL is on a "downward spiral".

 

This of course has been shown to be complete nonsense. Most knowledgable fans have looked at the team building, made the calculations and have worked out that the points limit is pretty much spot on. The NL looks to be competitive and strong.

 

Just the one person keeps on trolling, but has been unable to say what he thinks the points limit should be, or even list who these (non-existent) 25ish riders who can't get a team place are.

Edited January 2, 2017 by John Leslie

[Guest]

Gustix is entitled to be keen on any rider, (David Mason in this case),,even if the majority are not of the same opinion ,,and while a bit stuck in the past,he still makes a valuable contribution to speedway threads...And by the way Gustix,..David Mason could still get a team place this season..

 

Indeed waco. Are you looking in the Essex direction?

But there are still team places left and how do you know David Mason hasn't already got one but it just hasn't been announced yet?

 

As I have already commented, could that team place be in an Essex direction?

[waco 1,026]

I agree the points limit is about right ,,with only a few riders on 5 to 7points still to be placed ..of course David Mason is one of those and a few posters have said they would not want him in their team at the expense of younger riders..Gustix just does not agree with that reasoning and is entitled to his opinion...

[iris123 20,939]

I agree the points limit is about right ,,with only a few riders on 5 to 7points still to be placed ..of course David Mason is one of those and a few posters have said they would not want him in their team at the expense of younger riders..Gustix just does not agree with that reasoning and is entitled to his opinion...

You could though ask if the opinion of someone who doesn't go to speedway any more is worth anything when it comes to who to choose to ride for a team.I'd say if supporters don't want him then why would he even bother to disagree?You'd hope promoters take more notice of fans who pay at the turnstiles rather than some Hot Rod fan,who is sponsored by Mason Wear

[Nathan Mole 13]

Many teams are unlikely to go for Mason because I expect his average to drop again by maybe a point again this season as the quality is improving every season with such quick youngsters coming through every year

[John Leslie 3,213]

Let's have a try at finding these 25ish riders who are being forced out of the NL...

 

We had 12 teams last year (84 riders) and we have 12 teams this year (though 2 are different teams) so still 84 riders. So far so good.

 

We'll start with the 84 existing riders.

 

I reckon 5 are no longer NL eligible due to having higher league averages. (Clegg, Morris, Ellis, Carr, Branford)

and at least 6 have retired/taken time out of NL. (O Greenwood, Blacklock, Speight, Chessell, Knight, Campos)

 

We're now down to 73 riders and 84 places to fill.

 

46 of last year's riders have re-signed for teams (Williamson, Woolley, Wajtkneckt, Perry, Bacon, Hume, Ritchings, Parkinson-Blackburn, Rutherford, Burton, Wallinger, Davey, D Greenwood, Dwyer, Walker, R Andrews, Wood, Powell, Harris, Baseby, Cockle, Smart, Widman, Dugard, Cupitt, Bowen, Ayres, Thomas, Verge, Clifton, Bailey, Greaves, Kinsley, Hampshire, Whitmore, Halsey, Armstrong, Coles, Bowtell, Ruddick, Morley, Priest, Hunter, Wilson, Atkin, Phillips)

 

So 27 of last year's riders still to get a place, 38 spaces still to fill.

 

Belle Vue haven't named a single rider yet pending confirmation of the new owners, but I think we can safely say Bewley, Payne & Shuttleworth would make decent heatleaders again... I also have it on good authority that Smith, Hopwood and B Andrews have places confirmed at clubs who haven't yet announced their signing.

 

So just 21 of last year's riders left, and 32 spaces to fill. Let's have a close look at the 21 who are ..erm...fighting to squeeze into the mere 32 places!

 

K Hughes - Will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth.

J Shanes - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

E Perks - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

T Stokes - Believed to be taking a year out, but would still fit at the above teams

N Stoneman - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

D Mason - 40 year old on the downward spiral. Possibly ready for retirement. Would fit BV, Bux, Kent, KL, Lakeside, P'mouth or Stoke.

L Dicken - age 38. Only came of out retirement to help short-handed Buxton & may retire again. (would still fit 7 clubs)

G Cottham - again no youngster with no scope for improvement, but still fits for 7 teams if anyone fancies him.

R Terry-Daley - Fits at 7 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces. I'd expect him to get a place.

S Tedham - age 36. Fits at 8 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces, if any think he's better than a 3.00 youngster. Stoke ?

J Purchase - Fits at 8 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces, if any think he's better value than a 3.00 youngster

J Halder - Fits at 9 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces. He's young, could Birmingham be interested?

P Burnett - Came out of retirement to help a struggling club. likely to reitre again, unless Bux or Stoke think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

C Hay - Not young. Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining, if any think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

A Mellish - Not young. Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining, if any think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

B Basford - Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining. Almost certainly one will take him on.

D Holt, R Parker, M Saul, C Locke, M Leek - all failed to reach the minimum 3.00 average, so can always come in as a 3.00 uncontracted rider anywhere.

 

So that's everyone accounted for. They can all be fitted in somewhere. And even if they are all used we'll still need to find another 11 new riders.

(The fact is several of the above 21 riders will retire or not be considered good enough for NL, so we'll need more than 11).

 

Thankfully we have some newcomers/returnees to fill the gaps (Lawlor, Extance, Brennan, Govier, Cook, Mountain, Jenkins, Boxall and Atkins) but more are still needed.

[lewy 2,323]

Let's have a try at finding these 25ish riders who are being forced out of the NL...

 

We had 12 teams last year (84 riders) and we have 12 teams this year (though 2 are different teams) so still 84 riders. So far so good.

 

We'll start with the 84 existing riders.

 

I reckon 5 are no longer NL eligible due to having higher league averages. (Clegg, Morris, Ellis, Carr, Branford)

and at least 6 have retired/taken time out of NL. (O Greenwood, Blacklock, Speight, Chessell, Knight, Campos)

 

We're now down to 73 riders and 84 places to fill.

 

46 of last year's riders have re-signed for teams (Williamson, Woolley, Wajtkneckt, Perry, Bacon, Hume, Ritchings, Parkinson-Blackburn, Rutherford, Burton, Wallinger, Davey, D Greenwood, Dwyer, Walker, R Andrews, Wood, Powell, Harris, Baseby, Cockle, Smart, Widman, Dugard, Cupitt, Bowen, Ayres, Thomas, Verge, Clifton, Bailey, Greaves, Kinsley, Hampshire, Whitmore, Halsey, Armstrong, Coles, Bowtell, Ruddick, Morley, Priest, Hunter, Wilson, Atkin, Phillips)

 

So 27 of last year's riders still to get a place, 38 spaces still to fill.

 

Belle Vue haven't named a single rider yet pending confirmation of the new owners, but I think we can safely say Bewley, Payne & Shuttleworth would make decent heatleaders again... I also have it on good authority that Smith, Hopwood and B Andrews have places confirmed at clubs who haven't yet announced their signing.

 

So just 21 of last year's riders left, and 32 spaces to fill. Let's have a close look at the 21 who are ..erm...fighting to squeeze into the mere 32 places!

 

K Hughes - Will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth.

J Shanes - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

E Perks - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

T Stokes - Believed to be taking a year out, but would still fit at the above teams

N Stoneman - Again will be in demand. Fits at Buxton, Kent, King's Lynn or Plymouth

D Mason - 40 year old on the downward spiral. Possibly ready for retirement. Would fit BV, Bux, Kent, KL, Lakeside, P'mouth or Stoke.

L Dicken - age 38. Only came of out retirement to help short-handed Buxton & may retire again. (would still fit 7 clubs)

G Cottham - again no youngster with no scope for improvement, but still fits for 7 teams if anyone fancies him.

R Terry-Daley - Fits at 7 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces. I'd expect him to get a place.

S Tedham - age 36. Fits at 8 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces, if any think he's better than a 3.00 youngster. Stoke ?

J Purchase - Fits at 8 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces, if any think he's better value than a 3.00 youngster

J Halder - Fits at 9 of the 10 clubs who still have spaces. He's young, could Birmingham be interested?

P Burnett - Came out of retirement to help a struggling club. likely to reitre again, unless Bux or Stoke think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

C Hay - Not young. Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining, if any think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

A Mellish - Not young. Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining, if any think he's better than a 3.00 newcomer

B Basford - Fits all 10 clubs with spaces remaining. Almost certainly one will take him on.

D Holt, R Parker, M Saul, C Locke, M Leek - all failed to reach the minimum 3.00 average, so can always come in as a 3.00 uncontracted rider anywhere.

 

So that's everyone accounted for. They can all be fitted in somewhere. And even if they are all used we'll still need to find another 11 new riders.

(The fact is several of the above 21 riders will retire or not be considered good enough for NL, so we'll need more than 11).

 

Thankfully we have some newcomers/returnees to fill the gaps (Lawlor, Extance, Brennan, Govier, Cook, Mountain, Jenkins, Boxall and Atkins) but more are still needed.

Good post very well put.

[Guest]

It's a shame this thread has become sidetracked. IMO there are still comments in regard to various National League matters that need to be answered. Especially the Posts in regard to rider availability.

 

Which Riders Will Miss Out?

[iris123 20,939]

It's a shame this thread has become sidetracked. IMO there are still comments in regard to various National League matters that need to be answered. Especially the Posts in regard to rider availability.

 

Which Riders Will Miss Out?

Think if you look at the excellent post from John Leslie then it is really down to the promoters,but all seems fine...

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by iris123

[gaptooth 136]

Mr Leslie 1

Gobstix 0

[John Leslie 3,213]

Kyle Bickley is of course another promising 15-year-old who will come in to help cover the shortage of riders, and hopefully Sam Bebee will be back soon.

[gazzac 1,013]

Anyone think we get too much time off for Christmas/New year now? Seems the case!!!

[E I Addio 15,843]

]

I agree the points limit is about right ,,with only a few riders on 5 to 7points still to be placed ..of course David Mason is one of those and a few posters have said they would not want him in their team at the expense of younger riders..Gustix just does not agree with that reasoning and is entitled to his opinion...

 

Gustix is entitled to his opinion just as he would be entitled to an opinion that that the earth is flat but it would still be a stupid opinion if he had no facts to back it up.

 

He as put forward an opinion that because of the points averaged the NL is on a downward spiral. When asked to back up that opinion he can't. What is the point of expressing opinions on a DISCUSSION forum and not being prepared to discuss them. Not surprising he is viewed by many as as attention seeker when he continually posts such utter twaddle .

[waco 1,026]

A very interesting and informative post from John Leslie.....must have taken some time on the research...

Gustix i believe is a genuine former speedway supporter who,s knowledge goes back far more years than most of us ...so he is probably knocking on a bit. ..Modern attitudes and opinions have changed... and i believe i read, he is unable to get to meetings for whatever reason now days,,so this forum is probably his main contact with the sport,,I wish people would stop knocking him..He is still entitled to an opinion..