Gresham 928 Posted May 20, 2017 Not sure whether this has been discussed before, but has it been known for riders to do this in recent years? I'm presuming so... Was listening to a rider recently who wants a ride in the Championship as well as the Prem. To double up. When asked if he had one lined up, he said he'd had a few phone calls, but that it's a 'numbers game'. Knowing that...and wanting to get signed up, surely it's too tempting not to drop a few points to earn more in the long run? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,325 Posted May 20, 2017 Not sure whether this has been discussed before, but has it been known for riders to do this in recent years? I'm presuming so... Was listening to a rider recently who wants a ride in the Championship as well as the Prem. To double up. When asked if he had one lined up, he said he'd had a few phone calls, but that it's a 'numbers game'. Knowing that...and wanting to get signed up, surely it's too tempting not to drop a few points to earn more in the long run? Yip! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeW 46 Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) It's amazing the lengths people go to to get a ride!! Edited May 20, 2017 by brough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted May 20, 2017 Yip! At the cost of his team losing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frigbo 518 Posted May 20, 2017 Why would riders care if the team wins or loses? They'll all be off to ride for a different one the next day anyway. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted May 20, 2017 (edited) Why would riders care if the team wins or loses? They'll all be off to ride for a different one the next day anyway. That is what finally did me in. Do you know, I think this uncertainty of whether teams/riders were trying to drop points on purpose made me start questioning if even the best races are staged-managed. When we had that Crump v Pedersen slow-race in the World Cup about 10 years back, because one of the countries was trying to fall enough points behind to be able to use a tac-sub, and then we had the other rider purposely slowing so the one trying intentionally to finish behind him didn't (if you know where I'm at) and so to be unable to use double-point tac-sub. It was pathetic. I thought they were both going to get off their machines and try and body push each other over.. even wrestle each other over. One bad apple and all that can tarnish your belief a bit more. Edited May 20, 2017 by moxey63 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,325 Posted May 20, 2017 At the cost of his team losing?Yip,espiecially when their team is away from home,that's when you throw in the poor meeting. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted May 20, 2017 Why would riders care if the team wins or loses? They'll all be off to ride for a different one the next day anyway. You have a point. Which is why I must stop myself getting too involved in looking at averages and team set ups. Note to self...just enjoy the racing. ;-) Which is hard to do, if you think a rider in particular is not riding to his potential, so as to manipulate his average. The same can be said when discussing the pro's and con's of a riders ability and what he scored on the night. We all know how good a rider is when his engine is at it's best...so how can fans discuss the probability of a meeting result, or how a rider performed on the night, if we don't know how his engines were, or whether he was tinkering or trying new things etc. Tungate comes to mind of late...As did Craig Cook last night only scoring 6 trying out a new engine. It's hard to get your head around, even after so many years following the sport. It's between a rock and hard place tbh. Last night I witnessed Richard Lawson on a slower engine to that of Nichols and Harris...but he gated and used superb track craft to block the moves of those riders when he faced them. On other occasions, you see talented riders purely beaten by another's engine and not their skill on a bike. For me, because of that, it's hard to take Team Speedway seriously. As it's all down to averages, which can be manipulated at a cost of losing, and whether you have fast engines or not. I love the spectacle and good honest racing...but sometimes when you have these thoughts lingering in your head it takes the gloss off the sport. I know it's been done to death, but I can only dream of standardised Club engines. You can't blame the engines then, just the riders skill or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruno 1,790 Posted May 20, 2017 Do bears s@@t in the woods Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted May 20, 2017 That is what finally did me in. Do you know, I think this uncertainty of whether teams/riders were trying to drop points on purpose made me start questioning if even the best races are staged-managed. When we had that Crump v Pedersen slow-race in the World Cup about 10 years back, because one of the countries was trying to fall enough points behind to be able to use a tac-sub, and then we had the other rider purposely slowing so the one trying intentionally to finish behind him didn't (if you know where I'm at) and so to be unable to use double-point tac-sub. It was pathetic. I thought they were both going to get off their machines and try and body push each other over.. even wrestle each other over. One bad apple and all that can tarnish your belief a bit more. Oh dear! The double-point T/S...one of the daftest rules in my view. Not sure whether this has been discussed before, but has it been known for riders to do this in recent years? I'm presuming so... Was listening to a rider recently who wants a ride in the Championship as well as the Prem. To double up. When asked if he had one lined up, he said he'd had a few phone calls, but that it's a 'numbers game'. Knowing that...and wanting to get signed up, surely it's too tempting not to drop a few points to earn more in the long run? It's been reported in the past that some riders were ordered to drop points so as to manipulate the overall team average. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted May 20, 2017 For me I have no doubt that riders ( and promoters ) do manipulate the averages and - "You can't blame the engines then, just the riders skill or not" add to that skill their motivation or that it's not worth a light trying to see if they can get past or not! Only "young guns" truly Go For It ( when they are young and hate being beaten ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcatdiary 3,164 Posted May 20, 2017 Do bears s@@t in the woods My thoughts exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted May 20, 2017 That is what finally did me in. Do you know, I think this uncertainty of whether teams/riders were trying to drop points on purpose made me start questioning if even the best races are staged-managed. When we had that Crump v Pedersen slow-race in the World Cup about 10 years back, because one of the countries was trying to fall enough points behind to be able to use a tac-sub, and then we had the other rider purposely slowing so the one trying intentionally to finish behind him didn't (if you know where I'm at) and so to be unable to use double-point tac-sub. It was pathetic. I thought they were both going to get off their machines and try and body push each other over.. even wrestle each other over. One bad apple and all that can tarnish your belief a bit more. Jesus. How many times now have you said 'This is what did me in'. You were done in before any of these things you keep latching on to. Staggers me though that someone continues to frequent a forum regarding something they consistently tell us they have no interest in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robert72 845 Posted May 20, 2017 Yes of course riders drop their average the same as riders get excluded when needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
