What Order Greatest Brits.?

[frigbo 518]

Craven (based on what I've read)

Collins

Lee

Woffinden

Loram

[Wessex Wanderer 148]

Craven

Collins

Lee

Woffinden

Loram

 

Have to agree with most others. Would love to have put Loram higher as he was always soooo good to watch.

 

Woffy still has time to move up a place or two but as far as I am concerned no one will EVER put Peter Craven out of the number one spot - multi World titles and probably even more entertaining than Loram.

 

Great thread.

 

[norbold 7,106]

I agree with your order for those five, Sid.

 

Eight British champions: Craven, Collins, Price, Lee, Woffinden, Williams, Loram, Havelock.

Now throw in Tom Farndon, Jack Parker, Eric Langton and Split Waterman.....

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

I agree with your order for those five, Sid.

 

Eight British champions: Craven, Collins, Price, Lee, Woffinden, Williams, Loram, Havelock.

Now throw in Tom Farndon, Jack Parker, Eric Langton and Split Waterman.....

That would be great you better ask "Gustix first !!!😀😅 Edited June 12, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[iris123 20,958]

Think people are being very biased against Tai.I am no great fan of his,but he has proved to be up with the very best ever and his career is far from over.maybe it would have been better to leave him out until his riding days are over and then we could judge exactly how good he was over whatever period it turns out to be.One thing to remember is that Tai won his titles by riding on a variety of tracks around Europe and the world

 

Fred Williams,Tommy Price and even Peter Craven only ever won titles at home in Wembley stadium

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Think people are being very biased against Tai.I am no great fan of his,but he has proved to be up with the very best ever and his career is far from over.maybe it would have been better to leave him out until his riding days are over and then we could judge exactly how good he was over whatever period it turns out to be.One thing to remember is that Tai won his titles by riding on a variety of tracks around Europe and the world

 

Fred Williams,Tommy Price and even Peter Craven only ever won titles at home in Wembley stadium

Even if Tai wins more titles i still would not place him above Craven ,PC, Lee maybe it is bias though😜 Edited June 12, 2017 by Sidney the robin

[The White Knight 9,039]

Craven
Collins
Woffinden

Lee
Williams

[Midland Red 2,383]

Really interesting that Red, and Grachan has a great point in the word Longevity means alot .

 

 

If Havelock was included, he would be below Woffinden for me (and probably for everyone else)

If Carter qualified for the list (which I know he doesn't), I would place him third behind Michael Lee

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

If Havelock was included, he would be below Woffinden for me (and probably for everyone else)

If Carter qualified for the list (which I know he doesn't), I would place him third behind Michael Lee

A big shout that Red i don't think many would agree with you on that one i am like you i rated Carter very highly as a rider.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

And I disagree with Rob. The year Havvy was world champ he was clearly one of the top 3 or 4 riders in the world. You could not say the same of Muller or Sckaziel.

 

It only takes a little digging into Szczakiel's record to realise how wasn't quite as weak a World Champion as portrayed. For starters, he's a multiple World Champion, with an individual and a pairs (in which he scored a paid maximum). In both of those, he beat Ivan Mauger on track, to knock Ivan into second place. And Ivan reckoned their overall head-to-head during this period was 7-6 to Mauger.

 

You could argue Szczakiel was weaker outside Poland, but then again you could argue e.g. Freddie Williams won two World Finals and both were on his own track.

 

And note that I said Muller was 'competition' for worst World Champ for Havvy. Yes, Havvy had a better season in 1992 than Muller had in 1983, but then again, Muller stayed towards the top for longer - e.g. Muller was incredibly fast at Katowice in 1976. The 1992 World Final had perhaps have the weakest line-up for a final - the reigning champion (Jan O) wasn't even there. The big clue is that Gert Handberg, a middling third heat-leader, finished third in the final. Havvy did brilliantly to win that final, but never looked like winning a second one.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited June 13, 2017 by lucifer sam

[Guest]

Rob, I'd argue though that Szczakiel's fall from grace was incredibly swift. Barely days after winning the 1973 World Final he scored 0 in the World Team Cup Final at Wembley. He unfortunately did the same in the following year's WTC final, though I can't recall where it was held.

 

Havvy for all his injuries, was part and parcel of the International scene upto the late 1990's whilst Szczakiel simply disappeared from view.

[waiheke1 4,295]

 

If Havelock was included, he would be below Woffinden for me (and probably for everyone else)

If Carter qualified for the list (which I know he doesn't), I would place him third behind Michael Lee

As someone who was a regular.at Hyde Rd in the 80s, with frequent visits to The Shay and Odsal,you won't find many with as much respect as I have for carters ability. But imho there is no way he can be ranked ahead of either PC, Woffy or Lee. Would struggle to see him ranked ahead of the likes of Williams or Price either. In terms of post war Brits I'd suggest carter along with Parker are arguably the two best not to be world champ, but I'd have Parker ahead of kc

[OveFundinFan 4,139]

If Peter Collins had won the world championship in 1977 (gammy leg year), and he nearly did but tired due to injury, I would put him at the top equal with the other PC, Peter Craven. Any more then that, he would be ahead of P Craven on the basis Collins would have won both his world championships on foreign soil.

 

As for the rest, yes I seen Woffinden and in 2013-15 he was magic on the bike with the way he was passing with relative ease (though it would'nt have been. Only just saw Lee before I went absent for 30 years, never seen Loram, might have seen Freddie Williams but too young to remember. So I cant finish the list

[steve roberts 9,242]

 

It only takes a little digging into Szczakiel's record to realise how wasn't quite as weak a World Champion as portrayed. For starters, he's a multiple World Champion, with an individual and a pairs (in which he scored a paid maximum). In both of those, he beat Ivan Mauger on track, to knock Ivan into second place. And Ivan reckoned their overall head-to-head during this period was 7-6 to Mauger.

 

You could argue Szczakiel was weaker outside Poland, but then again you could argue e.g. Freddie Williams won two World Finals and both were on his own track.

 

And note that I said Muller was 'competition' for worst World Champ for Havvy. Yes, Havvy had a better season in 1992 than Muller had in 1983, but then again, Muller stayed towards the top for longer - e.g. Muller was incredibly fast at Katowice in 1976. The 1992 World Final had perhaps have the weakest line-up for a final - the reigning champion (Jan O) wasn't even there. The big clue is that Gert Handberg, a middling third heat-leader, finished third in the final. Havvy did brilliantly to win that final, but never looked like winning a second one.

 

All the best

Rob

...You're forgetting Hans wasn't riding either!

[lucifer sam 3,953]

...You're forgetting Hans wasn't riding either!

 

I focused more on Jan O, because he was the defending champion. But yes, no Jan O, no Hans, no Erik. Only former champion was Per Jonsson. He went into the meeting as favourite, but dropped three points in his opening ride. It meant a wide-open World Final, and Havvy was the one who stepped forward to take it.

 

All the best

Rob