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iainb

Time To Scrap Doubling Up?

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Regardless of doubling up and weaker league have seen some great racing and unpredictable results, and I've been watching on and off since 1963.

This is one of the best seasons racing since then for me. Still love attending to watch four blokes tearing around a track.

 

Edited by HertsRacer

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while guest are a neccerary evil for covering injury although there has got to be a better way doubling up is an evil that is neither wanted or needed , there is enough riders who would commit to ride here there is no excuse

I am not sure your statement is correct.The number of riders around Europe has dropped alarmingly.

 

Doesn't Sweden have doubling up?As f-s-p stated before Sweden didn't want to know about finnish riders,but due to lack of home grown riders they became quite keen.The number of young Danish riders taking up the sport has about halved in just a few years.Even now in the past couple of years in the Bundesliga the allow German riders to guest for other teams.I'd imagine the amount of British riders has also dramatically fallen from the 80s and yet someone mentioned we still have roughly the same amount of teams.So how will the places get filled without doubling up?And as i have already pointed out,even back in the 70s when we had lots more homegrown riders we still had guys like Bob Coles who rode in both leagues,i guess to make it pay,but i am sure was a welcome sight at tracks

 

Someone even mentioned that the Poles are having problems with youngsters,which is probably why they are so keen on getting riders over from other countries,which in turn gives us a problem

Edited by iris123

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And last night in the Kent v Lakeside National League meeting, both teams used a guest at number one. Yet still the promoters bemoan a lack of riders.

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In the 10 Championship sides I make it 32 who currently also ride in the Premiership. Just assume they all ride in the Premiership, even if you have 6 man teams then that means you still need to find 22 more to replace him in the Championship. Then you have plenty of people on another thread wanting to kick out all the Australians so that's another 8 from the Championship gone and 4 needing replacing in the Premiership. You can't just promote NL riders because then people complain that the standard isn't good enough. And the racing is poor because you have 2 NL riders miles adrift at the back.

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I am not sure your statement is correct.The number of riders around Europe has dropped alarmingly.

 

Doesn't Sweden have doubling up?As f-s-p stated before Sweden didn't want to know about finnish riders,but due to lack of home grown riders they became quite keen.The number of young Danish riders taking up the sport has about halved in just a few years.Even now in the past couple of years in the Bundesliga the allow German riders to guest for other teams.I'd imagine the amount of British riders has also dramatically fallen from the 80s and yet someone mentioned we still have roughly the same amount of teams.So how will the places get filled without doubling up?And as i have already pointed out,even back in the 70s when we had lots more homegrown riders we still had guys like Bob Coles who rode in both leagues,i guess to make it pay,but i am sure was a welcome sight at tracks

 

Someone even mentioned that the Poles are having problems with youngsters,which is probably why they are so keen on getting riders over from other countries,which in turn gives us a problem

there isn't enough British riders but there is enough riders , someone on here last year did some statistics and said last season enough riders rode in the uk last season to fill all the teams for this year , I really think we should adopt the polish system, no averages top 5 any rider but every team has to include one Brit and the reserves have to be British under 21 , they can stay there until they 22 , each team signs 3or 4 reserves and the ones that don't get picked that week can double down , I know people will argue that the wealthiest team will get all the best riders but as shown with leszno last season and Torun this year paying top dollar for the best doesn't work

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But did both actually care? It's about earning a crust I expect they're bothered about. You certainly get that feeling.

Oh it's no criticism of the riders, they need to race as much as they can, does anybody really believe many care about "their" team?

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In the 10 Championship sides I make it 32 who currently also ride in the Premiership. Just assume they all ride in the Premiership, even if you have 6 man teams then that means you still need to find 22 more to replace him in the Championship. Then you have plenty of people on another thread wanting to kick out all the Australians so that's another 8 from the Championship gone and 4 needing replacing in the Premiership. You can't just promote NL riders because then people complain that the standard isn't good enough. And the racing is poor because you have 2 NL riders miles adrift at the back.

I don't think 'banning' Aussies is wanted or will happen, more likely a requirement to commit for a certain length of time. If you consider overseas riders who have been dropped due to the 'averages' game and those NL riders who have some experience at a higher level (like Rye bringing in Morley and Newcastle with Hopwood), then you would probably have enough riders to remove the need for doubling up.

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there isn't enough British riders but there is enough riders , someone on here last year did some statistics and said last season enough riders rode in the uk last season to fill all the teams for this year

Didn't see the stats,but they sounds just that 'stats'.Look at how many teams spots are available and see how many riders rode.Good,but you are streched and in an ideal world.What then happens when things start to go wrong and riders get injured,riders decide they don't want to continue or would rather ride in Poland etc and the choice is getting more limited as each year passes.

We don't have enough youngsters coming through and neither does anyone else.And if we limit the amount of meetings riders can do then we have to face the fact that more and more will just stop riding because it doesn't make financial sense,especially for foreigners to come over.It is also a fact that if you have a 14 meeting season like they do in Sweden and Poland you are less susceptible to riders missing through injury.I doubt anyone in the UK wants such a short season,and the more meetings the worse the situation gets with riders missing

It isn't what i would like,but we have to face the reality that speedway is becoming less and less popular with youngsters taking the sport up,as well as fans who want to watch it

I have said we need a re-think any maybe more of a continental style calendar for some tracks hosting just a handful of meetings.

Edited by iris123

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I don't think 'banning' Aussies is wanted or will happen, more likely a requirement to commit for a certain length of time. If you consider overseas riders who have been dropped due to the 'averages' game and those NL riders who have some experience at a higher level (like Rye bringing in Morley and Newcastle with Hopwood), then you would probably have enough riders to remove the need for doubling up.

 

Maybe just about enough for next season then, but when we leave the EU? Will the likes of Busk Jakobsen, L Lindgren, Ostergaard, Graversen, Jonas B Andersen, Vissing, Hansen be able to get work permits? Nobody knows yet of course but there is a fair chance they will not meet the criteria.

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I haven't read all of the thread so apologies if someone else has suggested this but how about amalgamate the top two leagues but not with the race format we have today?

 

Something like ... 5 riders from the current teams in the premiership and championship plus 3 from the NL. The NL riders don't ride against the main body of riders but just have, say, 4 races spread throughout the meeting. These races all count towards the result. They get 2 rides each ( 1+2, 2+3, 1+3) and then the top 2 get a 3rd ride. This would give them track time, a bigger audience (which could possibly help with sponsorship), time with more experienced riders in the pits and they will be able to ride many more tracks and surfaces. Also, as they will be riding against each other there should be less races where the less abled rider is half a lap down and getting demoralised. They should also have a better chance of scoring points so they should boost their income.

The current reserve role could be taken by the 2nd strings, with a maximum of three extra rides taken between the two riders. With only five main team riders there should be enough within the current leagues to go around.

 

No doubt there will be some reasons why this idea, or similar ones, may not work. I've not thought long and hard about this, it's just an idea. Something does need to be done and maybe something like this is the answer?

 

Over to the more knowledgeable ones in the forum.

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I don't think 'banning' Aussies is wanted or will happen, more likely a requirement to commit for a certain length of time. If you consider overseas riders who have been dropped due to the 'averages' game and those NL riders who have some experience at a higher level (like Rye bringing in Morley and Newcastle with Hopwood), then you would probably have enough riders to remove the need for doubling up.

Have you not read the vitriol from a few fans re the Aussies, these people would have them stay in Aus forever!

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This doubling-up farce will be the final ruination of speedway and it is clear from reading the posts in this thread that a big majority of supporters intensely dislike it and want rid of it. (This is not going to be easy to do now that the system has careered out of control.)

 

By introducing this nonsense, the promoters themselves have created the rider shortage which they are now complaining about. The number of available Premiership team places has been reduced by 30+ with this number of Championship riders also riding for teams in the top league. The knock-on effect is the same in the Championship - 30+ riders who by rights should be exclusively in the top division now also occupy places in the second tier as well.

 

In the National League, there is the added knock-on effect of numerous riders being prevented from moving up a division even though they have developed enough to to do so. By these riders staying in the National League the situation has been created whereby numerous teams are so top-heavy that the quality of the racing is suffering - we see every week, a string of races in which the two leading riders are half a lap ahead of the remaining two. Speedway is nothing if it has no genuine quality of racing - and that is something which is being lost in the National League because the teams are so badly balanced.

 

Doubling-up has done nothing for British Speedway (except for making it a laughing stock). I have been an avid supporter of the sport for 64 years. I love it, and would never ever desert it - but I can fully understand why so many other long standing supporters are turning their backs on it - it's because of the senseless rules it has introduced and the appallingly poor way the sport is controlled.

 

Getting rid of doubling-up is now going to be a difficult process, but a start can be made by taking control of it and capping the number of riders who are allowed to take advantage of it, and then gradually reducing the reliance on it until in time, it can be scrapped altogether.

 

Sadly, there seems little prospect of this happening - instead, it has been allowed to spiral out of control and the promoters seem powerless to do anything about it.

Edited by BBuck
  • Like 3

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I haven't read all of the thread so apologies if someone else has suggested this but how about amalgamate the top two leagues but not with the race format we have today?

 

Something like ... 5 riders from the current teams in the premiership and championship plus 3 from the NL. The NL riders don't ride against the main body of riders but just have, say, 4 races spread throughout the meeting. These races all count towards the result. They get 2 rides each ( 1+2, 2+3, 1+3) and then the top 2 get a 3rd ride. This would give them track time, a bigger audience (which could possibly help with sponsorship), time with more experienced riders in the pits and they will be able to ride many more tracks and surfaces. Also, as they will be riding against each other there should be less races where the less abled rider is half a lap down and getting demoralised. They should also have a better chance of scoring points so they should boost their income.

The current reserve role could be taken by the 2nd strings, with a maximum of three extra rides taken between the two riders. With only five main team riders there should be enough within the current leagues to go around.

 

No doubt there will be some reasons why this idea, or similar ones, may not work. I've not thought long and hard about this, it's just an idea. Something does need to be done and maybe something like this is the answer?

 

Over to the more knowledgeable ones in the forum.

Must say i did suggest 'reserve' races in the Bundesliga and whether due to my suggestion or not i can't be sure,but it was implemented and a couple of years later scrapped.In reality,when i saw them it did turn out to be fairly strung out heats and more often than not the same rider won all 4 heats,the same rider came second in all 4 or at least 3,and so on....

This doubling-up farce will be the final ruination of speedway and it is clear from reading the posts in this thread that a big majority of supporters intensely dislike it and want rid of it. (This is not going to be easy to do now that the system has careered out of control.)

 

 

Again,not sure you can come to such a conclusion!!! How many on here are against it?6,7 or 8 people and some of them don't even go.Some didn't even go before this came to the crunch,so not really a good survey of opinions....

 

I do agree that all this,probably not the doubling up,but more riders riding in 4 or 5 different leagues,taking the places from others,has caused this problem with a majr rider shortage.We also lack enough training facilities,but as i have stated often enough,Denmark have great facilities that are open quite a lot,but still face a big problem in the future

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But how many fans have stopped attending because the likes of Nick Morris are racing for two clubs. You won't find

 

But how many fans have stopped attending because the likes of Nick Morris are racing for two clubs. You won't find them, cos they ain't attending!

Me for one - although it is the amount of meetings riders miss and facilities to cover that is the real issue for me Edited by frigbo

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Have you not read the vitriol from a few fans re the Aussies, these people would have them stay in Aus forever!

Mt liquid cosh has a vitriol firewall. :icon_smile_clown:

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