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15 hours ago, Rayleigh said:

How easy it is to have rose coloured spectacles about Silver

How about winning - He nicked Woffy from Scunthorpe (who actually developed him in the National League)  when we won the league

How about the team - The teams deteriorated year on year (don't mention picking Boxall over Doyle)

How competitive we were - We landed up bottom three year on year (the only team missing us now is Redcar as they are bottom every year)

How about the stadium -, no investment what so ever in fact Health and Safety condemned the stand, so without the money BMR put it the club would have been shut down anyway

How about the crowds - well he oversaw a drop from 1,500 to about 400 each meeting

How about the marketing - quote " if you do like it the way I run it then don't bother coming"

He run the club down in the mid eighties and poor Ronnie Russell (I am no fan of Ronnie) copped it until it closed in 1993

He was given the club back by the fans in 2000 (first night back at Rye House a crowd of over 2,500 and paying the riders around £10 per point (you do the sums)

He run the club down again and poor BMR (I am no fan of BMR) copped it until it closed in 2018

 

Yes I yearn for my club to back, No I don't yearn for it to be run by Silver

I can't get beyond the first line of this ....Check the rules you will find he didn't nick Woffinden. He and his late father chose Rye for various reasons including the Financial package.

3 League titles during his tenure. You clearly have some personal problem with him maybe you were the one his if you don't like it comments were aimed at. The I'm no fan of BMR is priceless as is the Poor Ronnie Russell comment, so we can gather that you had no time for all the Promoters going back to the demise of Rayleigh. Perhaps there is a clue in your username eh?  

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1 hour ago, westhamboy66 said:

I can't get beyond the first line of this ....Check the rules you will find he didn't nick Woffinden. He and his late father chose Rye for various reasons including the Financial package.

3 League titles during his tenure. You clearly have some personal problem with him maybe you were the one his if you don't like it comments were aimed at. The I'm no fan of BMR is priceless as is the Poor Ronnie Russell comment, so we can gather that you had no time for all the Promoters going back to the demise of Rayleigh. Perhaps there is a clue in your username eh?  

Not sure why you choose to make your response personal instead of debating the valid points I make.

The point about Woffy was he didn't discover and train him but his cheque book was bigger than Scunthorpes (Chelsea and Man city would approve)

Thanks for enlightening me that "Uncle" Len was talking to me direct. "you clearly have some personal problem with him", No, but the facts I listed are more relevant.

Given the decaying team and stadium and fan base I don't think BMR (sure they were naïve but them meant well) are the main reason for this situation ITS LEN SILVER and by the way there was one particular promotion at Rye House that I thought were exceptional.

 

Edited by Rayleigh

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8 hours ago, Rayleigh said:

Not sure why you choose to make your response personal instead of debating the valid points I make.

The point about Woffy was he didn't discover and train him but his cheque book was bigger than Scunthorpes (Chelsea and Man city would approve)

Thanks for enlightening me that "Uncle" Len was talking to me direct. "you clearly have some personal problem with him", No, but the facts I listed are more relevant.

Given the decaying team and stadium and fan base I don't think BMR (sure they were naïve but them meant well) are the main reason for this situation ITS LEN SILVER and by the way there was one particular promotion at Rye House that I thought were exceptional.

 

How can you sell up and be responsible for what happens three years later? BMR were hyped as ultra professional and must have looked " buyer beware" style carefully at what they were buying? An ageing, tired business that BMR were certain they could revive and found out that they couldn't. 

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9 hours ago, Rayleigh said:

Not sure why you choose to make your response personal instead of debating the valid points I make.

The point about Woffy was he didn't discover and train him but his cheque book was bigger than Scunthorpes (Chelsea and Man city would approve)

Thanks for enlightening me that "Uncle" Len was talking to me direct. "you clearly have some personal problem with him", No, but the facts I listed are more relevant.

Given the decaying team and stadium and fan base I don't think BMR (sure they were naïve but them meant well) are the main reason for this situation ITS LEN SILVER and by the way there was one particular promotion at Rye House that I thought were exceptional.

 

You’ll find that in 2007 Scunthorpe only raced in the Conference and Tai rode for them as well as the Rockets in the PL. We didn’t nick him, we made him an offer and he took it. 

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55 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

You’ll find that in 2007 Scunthorpe only raced in the Conference and Tai rode for them as well as the Rockets in the PL. We didn’t nick him, we made him an offer and he took it. 

But Scunthorpe were going up to the National League in 2008 and they wanted Tai and if I recall Josh Auty to spearhead the team. My point is we cannot take all the credit as we didn't discover him from our training track like a Dan Bewley or even a Marvyn Cox (whom we did develop although that was 36 years ago)

 

1 hour ago, waytogo28 said:

How can you sell up and be responsible for what happens three years later? BMR were hyped as ultra professional and must have looked " buyer beware" style carefully at what they were buying? An ageing, tired business that BMR were certain they could revive and found out that they couldn't. 

A Health and Safety inspection condemned the stadium with a massive list of problems only missing" two dead pigeons in the water tank". It cost a fortune from BMR to at least have three more years speedway.

As for your valid point that they couldn't revive it, well there seems to be some confusion that BMR may not have pulled the plug rather the BSPA did.

 

I am sure Ben91 and waytogo28 are as big a fan of Rye House as I am but please try to see what has really happened at Hoddesdon over a long period of time.

Edited by Rayleigh

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46 minutes ago, Rayleigh said:

A Health and Safety inspection condemned the stadium with a massive list of problems only missing" two dead pigeons in the water tank". It cost a fortune from BMR to at least have three more years speedway.

IF that's true, they're even bigger morons than I gave them credit for. What decent businessman buys a business without doing the relevant checks on what he is actually buying? Surely he has to know the state of it to reflect the value of what he is spending. That just makes them look even more incompetent than what they have been made to look over the last few months or more already. 

Edited by Najjer
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2 hours ago, Rayleigh said:

But Scunthorpe were going up to the National League in 2008 and they wanted Tai and if I recall Josh Auty to spearhead the team. My point is we cannot take all the credit as we didn't discover him from our training track like a Dan Bewley or even a Marvyn Cox (whom we did develop although that was 36 years ago)

 

A Health and Safety inspection condemned the stadium with a massive list of problems only missing" two dead pigeons in the water tank". It cost a fortune from BMR to at least have three more years speedway.

As for your valid point that they couldn't revive it, well there seems to be some confusion that BMR may not have pulled the plug rather the BSPA did.

 

I am sure Ben91 and waytogo28 are as big a fan of Rye House as I am but please try to see what has really happened at Hoddesdon over a long period of time.

I don’t think we ever claimed to be responsible for discovering Tai. We played an important part in his development and seeing him currently the best rider in the world drives home how lucky we were to be graced by his talent for two seasons. Scunthorpe aren’t solely responsible either however, Tai cut his teeth in Australia and came over here in 2006 without a team spot with his Dad looking for a ride anywhere. Scunthorpe used him in a challenge I believe where he excelled and so they snapped him up, the rest is history of course. 

Even Auty isn’t a Scunthorpe discovery, he was the hottest property in youth speedway pre-2006 and started out riding at Sheffield I believe. Certainly not Scunthorpe as he was riding before they re-opened as a youth. 

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I think if you check with companies house the holding company, Carter and Bailey were ‘taken over’ by BMR.

Debts and all!

 

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3 hours ago, Najjer said:

IF that's true, they're even bigger morons than I gave them credit for. What decent businessman buys a business without doing the relevant checks on what he is actually buying? Surely he has to know the state of it to reflect the value of what he is spending. That just makes them look even more incompetent than what they have been made to look over the last few months or more already. 

the elephant in the room is the Sky/BT tv money. What was promised  to BMR (and other clubs) and when.

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3 hours ago, Najjer said:

IF that's true, they're even bigger morons than I gave them credit for. What decent businessman buys a business without doing the relevant checks on what he is actually buying? Surely he has to know the state of it to reflect the value of what he is spending. That just makes them look even more incompetent than what they have been made to look over the last few months or more already. 

Have you ever bought an old second hand car and find out later when stripping down the engine you find the Manifold Head Gasket was split.

"Theres none so blind as those who wont see"

 

Edited by Rayleigh

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Has another famous club gone to the wall?  Rye House was always a decent evening out, for me a 100 mile return drive, but a pint and a bite in the pub, sit by the river, then in to one of the friendliest clubs around.  But that's dreaming.  Speedway urgently needs reforming, otherwise it's going to die.  And that's no empty threat.  I had limited experience as one of the consortium at Wimbledon back in 1987, but we learnt a lot.  Most of that was from John Berry.  Who remembers back in 1986 when he offered his services to run speedway as a "front man", but he would have been in charge of it?  The promoters then, as they would now, turned down his offer.  With hindsight, he could have been the guy to have saved it.  In football, individual chairman (call them promoters if you wish) run their clubs, but the principal is the FA, and there are some very powerful people running that.  Many years back I had a long talk with Len Silver.  Love him or loathe him (and I'm in the former camp) he knew his onions.  Even almost 25 years ago he told me the sport was being run by "amateurs".  Now, this ISN'T a dig at individual clubs or promoters, but it seems to me that the BSPA as a collective really have some outdated rules and regs, and seem content to let the sport drift.

If memory serves me well, back in 1987 Wimbledon paid (in the then National League (2nd div)), £10 per point and £10 per start, but if I recall, these rates were laid down and agreed by ALL promoters under the auspices of the BSPA.  As there were 78 points up for grabs in the league match, that was £780 that had to be found.  We ran a 5-heat 2nd half with varying rates of pay per race but that pushed the riders total to around £1000 for the night. We paid the GRA £1750 per week for stadium rent, shale, staff, and the hire of the team (they retained the riders contracts).  I cannot remember our programme printing costs, but lets call it around £250 (remember these are 1987 prices).  Various sundries probably came to another £250 so each meeting would cost approximately £3250 to run.  We charged £3.50 admission for adults and £2 for children, with a free programme, so we needed approximately gates of 1300 all in (adults and children) to break even.  The opening night, of course, was well above that, but there were the inevitable dips with some gates of around 750-800, and some of 1500 for special events.

I left the promotion before the season end, but we weren't making any profit, and fair play to the other members of the crew who soldiered on, and eventually made the fatal mistake of taking Wimbledon back to the BL Div 1.  It lasted but 6 weeks before the inevitable happened.

Now, I'm not preaching the gospel in any way shape or form, but as a fan of 54 years I think I know enough about speedway to know when it's being driven into the ground.  Promoters need to promote.  From what I can gather it seems that only Sheffield are taking responsbiltiy for this.  At the end of the day, speedway doesn't need a "Speedway Star" - it needs a "Speedway Czar".

Unless somebody comes along, shakes this sport up, and takes it by the scruff of the neck and is able to get the publicity it so richly deserves, within ten years it will be as relevant as extreme marbles.

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On 7/26/2018 at 5:59 AM, Rayleigh said:

How easy it is to have rose coloured spectacles about Silver

How about winning - He nicked Woffy from Scunthorpe (who actually developed him in the National League)  when we won the league

How about the team - The teams deteriorated year on year (don't mention picking Boxall over Doyle)

How competitive we were - We landed up bottom three year on year (the only team missing us now is Redcar as they are bottom every year)

How about the stadium -, no investment what so ever in fact Health and Safety condemned the stand, so without the money BMR put it the club would have been shut down anyway

How about the crowds - well he oversaw a drop from 1,500 to about 400 each meeting

How about the marketing - quote " if you do like it the way I run it then don't bother coming"

He run the club down in the mid eighties and poor Ronnie Russell (I am no fan of Ronnie) copped it until it closed in 1993

He was given the club back by the fans in 2000 (first night back at Rye House a crowd of over 2,500 and paying the riders around £10 per point (you do the sums)

He run the club down again and poor BMR (I am no fan of BMR) copped it until it closed in 2018

 

Yes I yearn for my club to back, No I don't yearn for it to be run by Silver

just to clear up one point i hear constantly, len silver did not pick doyle over boxhall. len made it clear that doyle was only in for the injured boxhall and as soon as he was fit boxhall would be back in the team. now like everyone i wanted doyley to stay but len stuck to his word and he should be given credit for that.

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Just now, jrm said:

just to clear up one point i hear constantly, len silver did not pick doyle over boxhall. len made it clear that doyle was only in for the injured boxhall and as soon as he was fit boxhall would be back in the team. now like everyone i wanted doyley to stay but len stuck to his word and he should be given credit for that.

even boxhall over doyle!!!

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11 hours ago, jrm said:

even boxhall over doyle!!!

After all these years people still spell his name wrong, it's Boxall, no H. 

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