Carter, Morton,simmons,louis,wilson What Order.?

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

I can't believe that people are simply using the BLRC to support their claims for Morton... Yes, it was a great achievement (albeit on his home track), but is that it? And Sidney, you really think that Willie's WTC max would elevate him above Mort?

Come on, let us look at what else he won; things that everyone seems to have forgotten (other than a vague mention in passing by falcace).

First was the 1978 VW/Daily Mirror GP. He won the final, and overall, against Simmons, Louis, and a host of other top names.

Then - and for me, THIS was the highlight of his career - there was his triumph at the 1980 Inter-Continental Final. In a meeting that was generally considered to be tougher than the World Final, Mort turned in a superb display of racing to top the list.

In view of this brace of victories (which everybody else seems to ignore), along with the other achievements mentioned above, I would DEFINITELY put him no lower than third in the list. Oh, and yes, I hated Carter, but I can differentiate between "ability" and "favouritism"...

1 - Simmons

2 - Carter

3 - Morton

4 - Louis

5 - Wilson

Steve

I would certainly put your 4/5 Steve in front of Morton because for me at there best in certain years they were in the top few riders in the world.Morton was not ok he won the White City round in 1980 but i never ever considered him good anough to win a WC but his record overall was an outstanding one.

[chunky 6,091]

I would certainly put your 4/5 Steve in front of Morton because for me at there best in certain years they were in the top few riders in the world.Morton was not ok he won the White City round in 1980 but i never ever considered him good anough to win a WC but his record overall was an outstanding one.

Grand Prix champion, BLRC champion, Inter-Continental champion, World Pairs champion, twice WTC top scorer, seven World Final appearances, and he wasn't one of the top riders in the world??? Okay...

 

Steve

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

Grand Prix champion, BLRC champion, Inter-Continental champion, World Pairs champion, twice WTC top scorer, seven World Final appearances, and he wasn't one of the top riders in the world??? Okay...

Steve

Yes he was of course, but he was never good anough to win a WC was he better than Louis? ( i was not a fan) maybe did he achieve more than Wilson maybe was he better than those two for me he wasn't.

[fatface 2,552]

Yes he was of course, but he was never good anough to win a WC was he better than Louis? ( i was not a fan) maybe did he achieve more than Wilson maybe was he better than those two for me he wasn't.

none of them were good enough to win a World Title, as it proved! :-)

[fatface 2,552]

 

 

WF

WTC

WP

BLRC

BF

WCQ

WFA

CAPS

Carter

 

S x 2

G x1

S x 2

G x 2

G x 2

S x 1

B x 1

S x 4

3

 

Louis

B x 1

G x 3

G x 1

G x 1

G x 1

B x 1

S x 1

4

 

Morton

 

G x 1

S x 3

B x 1

G x 1

G x 1

S x 2

B x 1

G x 1

S x 1

B x 1

G x 1

S x 1

B x 1

7

128

Simmons

S x 1

G x 4

S x 1

G x 3

S x 1

 

G x 1

B x 3

 

3

80

Wilson

 

G x 4

S x 1

B x 1

G x 1

S x 1

S x 1

B x 1

G x 1

S x 2

4

 

WF – World Finals

WTC – World Team Cup

WP – World Pairs

BLRC – British League Riders Championship

BF – British Finals

WCQ – Major World Championship Qualifying Rounds, eg. Intercontinental, European, Overseas, British-Nordic, Commonwealth

WFA – World Final appearances

CAPS – International caps

Edited September 10, 2017 by falcace

[The White Knight 9,039]

Simmo, in this Group of five woul always be Number One for me.

[chunky 6,091]

none of them were good enough to win a World Title, as it proved! :-)

I just find it a little confusing that Sidney obviously felt that Wilson had a world final win in him? Yes, he was a great rider, but I am not sure that he was in that class. Louis - maybe - but not Willie.

 

Thing is, it is easy to say that somebody IS good enough to win a world title - when they have won one! What about riders that WEREN'T good enough to win one - yet still did. Like Szczakiel, Muller, or Havvy, for example... Because they DID win one, does that make them better than everyone who didn't? Was Szczakiel a better rider than Plech? Was Muller better than Simmons?

 

While it is easy to say that Morton was never going to be world champ, it is easy to say the same about Louis, Wilson, Betts, Ashby, the Boococks, Crump, both Morans, Autrey etc. No, they never did, but on their day, every single one of them WAS good enough...

 

Steve

Edited September 11, 2017 by chunky

[iris123 20,972]

Interesting to see Egon talking about the 1983 season and saying he won 79 from his 84 heats that year!!! 84 heats seems quite a low number for a season though???

[waiheke1 4,295]

Interesting to see Egon talking about the 1983 season and saying he won 79 from his 84 heats that year!!! 84 heats seems quite a low number for a season though???

Well for a start that claim is not accurate. He won 6 from 13 heats in the world pairs. So that is more lost heats than he claims

And 2 from 4 in the world team cup

And dropped at least one point in the continental final

[iris123 20,972]

Yes,always wary of what he say's or posts.This is the exact wording....

 

 

Now again, something some of my super-fans could certainly remember. On the way to the speedway world title 1983. In all four preliminary qualifying races, Pocking, Poland Russia etc, I gave only one point in Poland against Z. Plech. Just so for the so-called Speedway chief editors. Who remembers 1983, the season I won 79 times out of 84 races

[Midland Red 2,383]

Carter - by quite a distance, for me

Wilson (Ray)

Simmons

Louis (John)

Morton (Chris)

Edited September 11, 2017 by Midland Red

[Grachan 7,362]

 

WF

 

 

WTC

 

 

WP

 

 

BLRC

 

 

BF

 

 

WCQ

 

 

WFA

 

 

CAPS

 

 

Carter

 

 

 

 

 

S x 2

 

 

G x1

S x 2

 

 

G x 2

 

 

G x 2

S x 1

B x 1

 

 

S x 4

 

 

3

 

 

 

 

 

Louis

 

 

B x 1

 

 

G x 3

 

 

G x 1

 

 

G x 1

 

 

G x 1

B x 1

 

 

S x 1

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

 

Morton

 

 

 

 

 

G x 1

S x 3

B x 1

 

 

G x 1

 

 

G x 1

S x 2

B x 1

 

 

G x 1

S x 1

B x 1

 

 

G x 1

S x 1

B x 1

 

 

7

 

 

128

 

 

Simmons

 

 

S x 1

 

 

G x 4

S x 1

 

 

G x 3

S x 1

 

 

 

 

 

G x 1

B x 3

 

 

 

 

 

3

 

 

80

 

 

Wilson

 

 

 

 

 

G x 4

S x 1

B x 1

 

 

G x 1

S x 1

 

 

S x 1

B x 1

 

 

G x 1

 

 

S x 2

 

 

4

 

 

 

 

WF – World Finals

WTC – World Team Cup

WP – World Pairs

BLRC – British League Riders Championship

BF – British Finals

WCQ – Major World Championship Qualifying Rounds, eg. Intercontinental, European, Overseas, British-Nordic, Commonwealth

WFA – World Final appearances

CAPS – International caps

Have to admit I'm struggling to understand that!

[waiheke1 4,295]

Have to admit I'm struggling to understand that!

G gold

S silver

B bronze

When u copy and paste into here you lose formatting

But basically what Falcace was showing is that on achievements Mort should be number 1

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

G gold

S silver

B bronze

When u copy and paste into here you lose formatting

But basically what Falcace was showing is that on achievements Mort should be number 1

I am quite surprised that Morton is high up in alot of people's list in amongst the other four.He was a great rider but his gating was his achlilles heel but he did have a fair amount of success and his longevity was impressive.

[chunky 6,091]

I am quite surprised that Morton is high up in alot of people's list in amongst the other four.He was a great rider but his gating was his achlilles heel but he did have a fair amount of success and his longevity was impressive.

You keep saying you are surprised by Morton being rated highly by others, but when you look at his achievements, you shouldn't be. The fact that he achieved more than others generally rated above him is an indication of that.

 

Thing is, you also mention his longevity in the sport, but he really wasn't around that long. He retired at 34 before having that one season with Sheffield. Simmons, Jessup, Kennett etc were all around a lot longer.

 

Steve