There Can Be Beauty In Simplicity...

[steve roberts 9,246]

I like the league points system.

But I have always been uncomfortable with the TR idea. Preferring instead something akin to the old TR rule as well as choice of gate positions when you're behind. The choice of gate positions might get clubs to grade the gates more fairly. The advantage gained by being out of certain gates at some circuits is very noticeable.

Gate four was often a stinker at Cowley!

 

I always preferred alternate gates as the fixed gates often offered a team an advantage either early on or late during the match as track conditions altered as the gates were not always alternate whereby a team had successive inside and/or outside gates depending on who won/lost the toss.

[BWitcher 12,453]

...and possibly a degree of sporting integrity, too.

 

Do you watch football? Whatever you may think of the sport, I think we would all love speedway to enjoy just a small percentage of the popularity that football generates. Football seems to operate well enough with 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw. Can you imagine football awarding an extra league point if you don't lose by too much? Or giving the away team an extra point for a draw? The league tables in speedway are a mess.

 

Also, if you are watching Man Utd against Bournemouth and United go 3-0 up, do you think it would be a good idea for Bournemouth's next goal to count double "to make it interesting"?

 

Some may say you can't compare speedway to football - but I (obviously!) think you can - and should.

 

The points system used in speedway is almost perfect.

 

The only mistake they made was removing the 2pts for a home win of 1-6pts.

[False dawn 2,298]

I always preferred alternate gates as the fixed gates often offered a team an advantage either early on or late during the match as track conditions altered as the gates were not always alternate whereby a team had successive inside and/or outside gates depending on who won/lost the toss.

So....

Team captains toss a coin as now. Winner chooses gates in heat 1 or 15.

Then teams alternate gates each race.

Let the team managers choose which rider goes in which gate.

If you're 8 or more behind the losing team can choose which pair of gates they want and continue to do so until they are less than 8 behind when the teams alternate again.

 

At least with this system, the riders have to score the point according to the normal scoring system.

And if one gate was a graveyard and the losing team kept choosing the other pair of gates, watch how quickly the ground staff would start to grade the offending gate.

[SCB 0]

The current point scoring system is brilliant. It's rare a heat 15 doesn't mean something these days. As mentioned, it was better when you only got 2 for a home win of 1-6 points though.

 

As a matter of interest why was the 'bonus point' dropped based on the home and away aggregate score?

So glad you brought that one up - that genuinely was an excellent idea

Because it was confusing. You get to heat 15, you've won the meeting (or lost it) and you ask, "Can we get a bonus point Dave?" and Dave replies, "I don't know, what was the score in the other meeting?" Not a clue, don't know. You may laugh at this but I was at a Stoke vs Newport meeting many years ago when Newport promoter Tim Stone come out into the crowd and asked us, "What do we need to get a bonus point", the away promoter didnt know FFS, neither did the fans because the programme was a rain off programme from before the 1st leg and nobody had thought to check before hand in case the programme didnt tell us!

 

At least what we have now, we all know when we go home if bonus points have been won and they matter in every meeting, not just the second leg.

[steve roberts 9,246]

Thanks for the info...although I never found the old system confusing personally but I can see the merits of the system that operates presently.

[Midland Red 2,383]

Two things Sir Shoutalot gets excited about:

 

We're entering tactical country

 

We're on for a last heat decider

 

Quite agree about the second one, but not the first - double points should be done away with, a return to the old tac sub rule and choice of gates

[BWitcher 12,453]

Two things Sir Shoutalot gets excited about:

 

We're entering tactical country

 

We're on for a last heat decider

 

Quite agree about the second one, but not the first - double points should be done away with, a return to the old tac sub rule and choice of gates

 

Which would mean 'Sir Shoutalot' getting excited much more often about 'entering tactical country'.

[False dawn 2,298]

At least what we have now, we all know when we go home if bonus points have been won and they matter in every meeting, not just the second leg.

We could do both. Or is that too complicated for the average announcer? I note that Swedish TV show the aggregate score after every race in the 2nd leg so you can follow the score on the night and where we are with the bonus point. Not complicated really. However, if it's a choice between one or the other, I'd go for the current system. But we could do both.

 

OR

 

Maybe we should go down the GP route. Team's score points according to their total race points. Win or lose, it doesn't matter. Only your score matters. Wouldn't make a great deal of difference except that Wolves would have finished top of the league AND Rye House would have finished 4th (by 3 points). Can't see Matt going for this idea then! Oh, and Leicester would have finished 6th.

[HenryW 1,178]

 

Which would mean 'Sir Shoutalot' getting excited much more often about 'entering tactical country'.

Ooh...Just imagine his excitement at the possibility of seeing Jason Doyle brought in for an extra race!!

[Paulco 7,075]

 

The points system used in speedway is almost perfect.

 

The only mistake they made was removing the 2pts for a home win of 1-6pts.

Agreed , that was a mistake changing that

[Blazeaway 1,501]

 

Which would mean 'Sir Shoutalot' getting excited much more often about 'entering tactical country'.

 

Is "tactical country" a pseudonym for Kelvin Tatum?

[E I Addio 15,845]

The current point scoring system is brilliant. It's rare a heat 15 doesn't mean something these days. As mentioned, it was better when you only got 2 for a home win of 1-6 points though.

g.

How they came to mess that up I gave no idea, but the 3-2-1 scoring system was tailor made to replace the TR. They ruined it by allowing the TR to continue when with that scoring system it favoured top heavy teams , especially as at that time two TR's were allowed so with for example Holder and Ward, and perhaps Lindgren and Karlsson on the form they were then it almost guaranteed an extra 6 points which made it very difficult for strength in depth teams to gain sufficient advantage to get the full 3 points.

 

Whichever way you look at it the TR is and always has been a disaster, except, arguably if the rider in black and whit goes off 15 metres, but it is still probably the daftest rule the sport has ever known.

 

Alternate gates was fine when it was around but when you have your top men on say £120+ per point or even a fixed wage and his second string on not much over half that the sevond string has no chance to make money if he is put on the unfavourable gates all the time. One start from each of four gates is at least fair if nothing else.

[cityrebel 2,960]

It was dropped to stop teams being built focused purely on home performance. For example lakeside.

and Exeter!

[Tsunami 10,219]

and Exeter!

and Sheffield.

[steve roberts 9,246]

How they came to mess that up I gave no idea, but the 3-2-1 scoring system was tailor made to replace the TR. They ruined it by allowing the TR to continue when with that scoring system it favoured top heavy teams , especially as at that time two TR's were allowed so with for example Holder and Ward, and perhaps Lindgren and Karlsson on the form they were then it almost guaranteed an extra 6 points which made it very difficult for strength in depth teams to gain sufficient advantage to get the full 3 points.

 

Whichever way you look at it the TR is and always has been a disaster, except, arguably if the rider in black and whit goes off 15 metres, but it is still probably the daftest rule the sport has ever known.

 

Alternate gates was fine when it was around but when you have your top men on say £120+ per point or even a fixed wage and his second string on not much over half that the sevond string has no chance to make money if he is put on the unfavourable gates all the time. One start from each of four gates is at least fair if nothing else.

...that's always been the perception but the more I read interviews with riders it wasn't as prevalent as it appeared looking back although, obviously, it varied from team to team, rider to rider.

 

Personally I have no real issue with fixed gates except under the formula I was familiar with the gates didn't alternate which, as stated previously, did sometimes give a team an unfair advantage.

Edited September 15, 2017 by steve roberts