arnieg 3,606 Posted September 20, 2017 Racers had More wins, more bonus points and more race points - I'm struggling to follow Steve Roberts' argument. Basically Oxford could have won the league if only Reading weren't so good that they won at Oxford - TWICE. [and the A match was won by seven, not one or two or three but seven] I do have some sympathy with Grand central though - the KO cup win was down to the team manager after the riders lost the semi on track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted September 20, 2017 Racers had More wins, more bonus points and more race points - I'm struggling to follow Steve Roberts' argument. Basically Oxford could have won the league if only Reading weren't so good that they won at Oxford - TWICE. [and the A match was won by seven, not one or two or three but seven] I do have some sympathy with Grand central though - the KO cup win was down to the team manager after the riders lost the semi on track. ...not sure how I can put it any other way personally. I was not questioning Reading's Championship win but the fact that Oxford's home form was poor...which is what my initial post highlighted...and ultimately cost them any chance of the championship that season but that their away form was impressive (best in the league in fact) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racers and royals 8,697 Posted September 20, 2017 ...not sure how I can put it any other way personally. I was not questioning Reading's Championship win but the fact that Oxford's home form was poor...which is what my initial post highlighted...and ultimately cost them any chance of the championship that season but that their away form was impressive (best in the league in fact) That was because Oxford`s track offered no home advantage at all- whereas Smallmead was such a trick track that only the home riders could ride it properly 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) That was because Oxford`s track offered no home advantage at all- whereas Smallmead was such a trick track that only the home riders could ride it properly There is some truth in that...taken literally! To quote from the book 'The History of Oxford Speedway' "...Reading emerged as Champions, and the Cheetahs were left thinking how different things could have been had they not suffered that string of home defeats in July and August, since their away record was the best in the league" Edited September 20, 2017 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,606 Posted September 20, 2017 So your argument is: Cowley was effectively a 'neutral' track Oxford lost twice to Reading on this 'neutral' track Therefore Oxford were better than Reading Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,241 Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) So your argument is: Cowley was effectively a 'neutral' track Oxford lost twice to Reading on this 'neutral' track Therefore Oxford were better than Reading Not at all although Oxford was always deemed a fair track offering little in the way of home track advantage unlike some tracks. Oxford, for whatever reason, just didn't perform well enough on their home track during 1990 (I recall Wiggy developing a complex about Cowley) to warrant a serious challenge at the championship...as explained in said book quoted...although their away form was exceptional. Reading became champions which was an admirable achievement and Oxford were left 'licking their wounds' over a poor home record which cost them dearly in the final analysis. Edited September 20, 2017 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted September 23, 2017 Chalk and cheese frankly. Now, if a team could declare that the next goal scored will count as two then you'd have a point. Very different, I agree. But it is unquestionably still the case that one goal counts as two, so any suggestion that speedway is the only sport where points (or goals) double up is untrue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,918 Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Very different, I agree. But it is unquestionably still the case that one goal counts as two, so any suggestion that speedway is the only sport where points (or goals) double up is untrue. Nothing counts as two. 2-2, 3-3 doesn't become 5-8. It stays at 5-5. Football is all about scoring goals and it's accepted that it's more difficult away from home so that is used purely as a deciding factor when teams are level after both legs have been played. The rule simply states the team scoring more away goals carries on to the next stage of the knock-out competition. The goals still count as one each, but the higher number away goes through. The rule is only used when teams are level at the end of some cup ties not as an artificial attempt to bring a team closer during a run-of-the-mill qualifying group match. I'd say the comparable rule in speedway is that, for a draw, the away team gets two points and the home team only one. Edited September 23, 2017 by Vincent Blackshadow 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grand Central 2,654 Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) Very different, I agree. But it is unquestionably still the case that one goal counts as two, so any suggestion that speedway is the only sport where points (or goals) double up is untrue. That is just not true.And it doesn't improve for the re telling. The result is a draw on aggregate. With all goals counting equally. But the deadlock is broken by the number of away goals scored. The side with the greater number of away goals goes through to the next round. It has more in common with the count back at GPs for semi final places. No goals count as double. Edited September 23, 2017 by Grand Central 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted September 23, 2017 That is just not true. And it doesn't improve for the re telling. The result is a draw on aggregate. With all goals counting equally. But the deadlock is broken by the number of away goals scored. The side with the greater number of away goals goes through to the next round. It has more in common with the count back at GPs for semi final places. No goals count as double. Fair point GC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sotonian 603 Posted September 23, 2017 Very different, I agree. But it is unquestionably still the case that one goal counts as two, so any suggestion that speedway is the only sport where points (or goals) double up is untrue. You agreed with my rebuttal of your original point then proceeded to restate it! I cannot find any 'unquestionable' case of any football goal scored being worth double at the point it was scored. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites