bellevueace 912 Posted January 18, 2018 My only concern over Cook would be if he has a season of struggle in the GP,s how that could affect his league form. We saw last season after a poor GP and World Cup how it could possibly have a negative effect. On the other hand I suppose a good GP season could have the opposite effect and his league form improves. If im being honest I think he will be out of his depth at GP level. Would love to be proved wrong though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
INCOGNITO 357 Posted January 18, 2018 15 hours ago, stevebrum said: Thorssell rode all season as 2nd heat leader. No he finished as second heat leader but during the season he swapped places with Sam and Rory in the averages and was at one point fourth in the team averages. 7 hours ago, Steve0 said: He may have been second in your averages but he rode at number 4 for a lot of the results I have just looked at - which I think is the point that is being made. Yes he mainly rode at number four so didn't have heat 13 and had heat 14 instead but he was involved in many heat 15 rides and his average away was a vast improvement. 3 hours ago, stevebrum said: Besides the number one riders could ride anywhere plus he did ride quite a few heat 15's. He rode at 4 all season but as number 2 in the averages. And that is the point! But yea I get that point too. Number one rider has to ride at number one and the next four in any position the managers wanted to put them. The two reserves were in order of average with number seven being more protected. ANY WAY BELLE VUE THREAD COOK signed as number one and even he said he thought he might be left out so pleased to be picked. It must have been tempting for Aces to recall Zagar on an 8.00 average like Vaculik comes in on but fair play keeping continuity with Cook in what will be a telling season for him at a much higher level and more pressure. Max Fricke has been leaked by Wroclaw as already signed for Aces when the Drozdz news came out and in Worrall and Tungate they have good backing and very hard to beat at the NSS. Having Bewley at reserve will be a big help but think he will move up eventually as Drozdz settles in but a solid line up if Etheridge takes the final place but think they will be inconsistent away. Still one of the better line ups announced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 18, 2018 15 hours ago, stevebrum said: Thorssell rode all season as 2nd heat leader. What are you wittering on about? He rode as a second string. No 4 is a second string position. Second heat leader would be riding at No 5 and having Heat 13 every week. Sam Masters rode there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, foreverblue said: That's the second fact Gavan's got wrong on one page! He said earlier we dumped Ellis after he helped us win the league! He wasn't wrong. As regards the signing of Cook, can't for the life of me think of any reason why Belle Vue wouldn't want to sign him. He is passionate and puts his heart and soul into racing for the club. The kind of rider you LOVE to have in your side. He may not make a successful GP rider (then again he might) but the sport would be in a better place if there were more Craig Cooks in it. Edited January 18, 2018 by BWitcher 13 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,076 Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: He wasn't wrong. As regards the signing of Cook, can't for the life of me think of any reason why Belle Vue wouldn't want to sign him. He is passionate and puts his heart and soul into racing for the club. The kind of rider you LOVE to have in your side. He may not make a successful GP rider (then again he might) but the sport would be in a better place if there were more Craig Cooks in it. No fair enough he wasn't wrong on the Thorsell point but he was wrong on the Ellis point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,819 Posted January 18, 2018 4 hours ago, BWitcher said: What are you wittering on about? He rode as a second string. No 4 is a second string position. Second heat leader would be riding at No 5 and having Heat 13 every week. Sam Masters rode there. No such thing as a 'second string position' when riders (besides the number one and reserves) can ride in any other position. Next you will be telling me that Thorrsell didn't finish as 2nd in the averages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, stevebrum said: No such thing as a 'second string position' when riders (besides the number one and reserves) can ride in any other position. Next you will be telling me that Thorrsell didn't finish as 2nd in the averages. Steve, this is a Belle Vue thread, leave the nonsense for elsewhere. Positions 1 & 5 are the hardest positions, i.e. heat leader roles, 2,3 &4 are second string roles in terms of opponents faced. That's reality. Why would I be telling you he didn't finish 2nd in the averages when he did? Whether he was the 2nd best rider though is another argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve0 5,517 Posted January 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, stevebrum said: No such thing as a 'second string position' when riders (besides the number one and reserves) can ride in any other position. Next you will be telling me that Thorrsell didn't finish as 2nd in the averages. I think you are being a bit pedantic. Traditionally 1,3 and 5 are heat leader positions, 2 and 4 second strings, 6 and 7 reserves. If someone rides at 2 and 4 then they get easier programmed rides - which is probably whyThorsell's has such a high average Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,819 Posted January 18, 2018 2 hours ago, BWitcher said: Steve, this is a Belle Vue thread, leave the nonsense for elsewhere. Positions 1 & 5 are the hardest positions, i.e. heat leader roles, 2,3 &4 are second string roles in terms of opponents faced. That's reality. Why would I be telling you he didn't finish 2nd in the averages when he did? Whether he was the 2nd best rider though is another argument. Stop discussing your nonsense then. 2 hours ago, Steve0 said: I think you are being a bit pedantic. Traditionally 1,3 and 5 are heat leader positions, 2 and 4 second strings, 6 and 7 reserves. If someone rides at 2 and 4 then they get easier programmed rides - which is probably whyThorsell's has such a high average If all teams adopted the traditional team format then it's a way more valid point. The amount of heat 15's tell us a lot more. Anyway, this is a Belle Vue thread so best leave the theories here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teromaafan 586 Posted January 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Stop discussing your nonsense then. If all teams adopted the traditional team format then it's a way more valid point. The amount of heat 15's tell us a lot more. Anyway, this is a Belle Vue thread so best leave the theories here. The amount of Heat 15s (one every meeting from my research) tell us what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Stop discussing your nonsense then. If all teams adopted the traditional team format then it's a way more valid point. The amount of heat 15's tell us a lot more. Anyway, this is a Belle Vue thread so best leave the theories here. Steve, kindly just shut up and stop being a ****. You must be the only speedway fan on the planet who doesn't grasp that no 4 is a far easier position than no 5 but as always you will keep arguing and make yourself look a fool. Leave you to it. Edited January 18, 2018 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,819 Posted January 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Steve, kindly just shut up and stop being a ****. You must be the only speedway fan on the planet who doesn't grasp that no 4 is a far easier position than no 5 but as always you will keep arguing and make yourself look a fool. Leave you to it. Trying to have the last word as usual, let's kindly respect it's a Belle Vue thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gavan 5,049 Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 11:00 PM, foreverblue said: That's the second fact Gavan's got wrong on one page! He said earlier we dumped Ellis after he helped us win the league! No im right Thorsell rode at number 4 thus technically getting easier rides. Though yes he did ride in numerous heat 15's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,314 Posted January 19, 2018 Riding at 2 or 4 doesn't neccesarily make you a second string rider if your average is that of a heat leader. Ivan Mauger sometimes rode at number 2 for Exeter as a tactic to give him a ts ride later in the match if required in KO Cup matches. It didn't make him a second string rider. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Riding at 2 or 4 doesn't neccesarily make you a second string rider if your average is that of a heat leader. Ivan Mauger sometimes rode at number 2 for Exeter as a tactic to give him a ts ride later in the match if required in KO Cup matches. It didn't make him a second string rider. Nobody has ever said that. What is being said is riding at 2 or 4 is a hell of a lot easier than riding at 5 and will make a significant difference to your average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
