CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) So I have had a fair bit of time on my hands over the past two days, thinking... that upon us once again is the "biggest AGM of the year for British Speedway"... at some stage if this is allowed to carry on then one year there will simply be no AGM as the sport will be completely dead (Let's hope this does not happen)... anyway as ever these are my opinion, very much open to a great debate about this, challenge me if you have questions and add your own ideas! STRUCTURE For next year, I would expand the top tier of British Speedway "Premier League" to 12 teams which I feel at the moment is the maximum number we can really have, I would also remove the Conference league altogether and combine it with the teams left in an expanded Championship but ran more to the level of what the conference is now (16 teams).... lets move on with it... BRITISH PREMIER LEAGUE SPEEDWAY 1) Team building would be a to a 42 point average 2) Maximum of two double up riders per team (yes we need doubling up for a little while longer) 3) Only riders with a 4.5 average or below can double down plus they must be from a Commonwealth Country 4) All averages are rounded up or rounded down to the near .0 or .5 to assist in making team building easier An example of teams below based on using whatever averages I last saw, if they have a current Premier League average it is used, or their Premier League average is /1.2 or it is assessed (again just for argument sake here, pretty sure if it was done properly teams would be different). Belle Vue C. Cook 8.5 S. Worrall 7.5 R. Tungate 6 D. Bewley 4.5 T. Batchelor 7.5 J. Jacobs 3.5 T. Jonasson 4.5 42 Leicester K. Nilsson 7 P. Przedpelski 7 P. Starke 5 J. Auty 4.5 M. Campton 4.5 K. Gomolski 6.5 E. Kennett 6.5 41 Rye House C. Harris 7.5 K. Kasprzak 7 R. Wells 6.5 B. Barker 6 J. Garrity 6 N. Klindt 6 B. Morley 3 42 Swindon J. Doyle 9.5 D. Bellego 7.5 E. Riss 6 J. Sedgman 5.5 A. Ellis 5.5 B. Wilson-Dean 4.5 Z. Wajtknecht 3 41.5 Kings Lynn R. Lambert 7.5 T. Jorgensen 6 M. Fricke 7.5 N. Porsing 4.5 L. Rose 5.5 J. Pickering 4 K. Huckenbeck 5.5 40.5 Poole B. Kurtz 8 K. Woryna 7 T. Musielak 7.5 H. Andersen 8 E. Perks 3.5 L. Kerr 5 J. Shanes 3 42 Somerset P. Kildermand 8.5 P. Hougarrd 6 C. Wright 6.5 R. Lawson 6.5 M. Palm Toft 5 J. Allen 5 J. Graversen 4 41.5 Wolverhampton F. Lindgren 9.5 J. Thorsell 8.5 K. Howarth 6.5 L. Lindgren 6 A. Morris 4 M. Riss 4.5 N. Greaves 3 42 Sheffield J. Grajczonek 7.5 S. Masters 8 G. Zengota 8 J Bates 5.5 L Bridger 5.5 T. Kurtz 4.5 D. Ayres 3 42 Ipswich S. Nicholls 7.5 D. King 7 K. Newman 5 R. Schlein 7.5 C. Heeps 5.5 N. Covatti 6 D. Hume 3 41.5 Glasgow N. Morris 9 B. Nicol 5 A. Summers 7 N. Lunna 5 S. Robson 5.5 R. Worral 7.5 T. Perry 3 42 Peterborough K.Bjerre 8.5 L. Bjerre 6 J. Holder 6 C. Holder 7 O. Ostergaard 5.5 G. Manzares 5 C. Mountain 3 41 For team changes, I would have a rule in place stating that a rider can be transferred in on their current attained average throughout the season, but if a rider is let go by a team then they can only replace using his season start average... For example if Gino Manzares upped his average to a 7 and Peterboro wanted to let him go, they would only have 5 points to replace him - this is to protect riders who ride above their average and add points, I believe Ellis Perks may have been victim of this. If Gino Manzares falls to a 3.5 average during the season, and Peterboro attempt to replace him, they still get to use his 5 point average but any club that wants to sign Gino into their side can sign him on his current average of 3.5 - it will make team building and changes more interesting. League Cup Competition League Cup A Bellue Vue Sheffield Glasgow League Cup B Leicester Wolverhampton Peterborough League Cup C Swindon Poole Somerset League Cup D Rye House Ipswich Kings Lynn Home & Away Once so 4 Meetings Top 2 from Each Group progress to Quarter Finals Winner Group A vs Runner up Group B Winnder Group B vs Runner up Group A Winner Group C vs Runner up Group D Winner Group D vs Runner up Group C Semi Final Draw out of a Hat Overall = 10 meetings if you get to the final, minimum meetings 4 13 Heat Format - Points Awarded 4-3-2-0 - 2 points for winning the match, 1 point for Draw, 0 for defeat I ngroup matches, no tacticals KO CUP COMPETITION KO Cup for Example Belle Vue, Leicester, Rye House, Swindon all byes into round 2 Kings Lynn vs Poole Somerset vs Wolves Sheffield vs Ipswich Glasgow vs Peterborough Winner of each goes into Last 8 etc. Overall = 8 meetings, minimum 2 meetings 16 Heat Format - Points Awarded 3-2-1-0, 2 nomiated heats, two tactical rides allowed if 6 or more down before heat 12, anyone rider can replace any rider LEAGUE FORMAT League Format Home & Away once 3 Points for a Win, 1 Point Draw, 0 Points Loss 1 Bonus point for aggregrate score win 11 Home Meetings & 11 Away Meetings per season 22 League Meetings per season 15 Heat Format - One Nominated Heat - Overall Maximum Meetings = 40 meetings Minimum Meetings = 28 meetings based on the success of each team PREMIERSHIP RIDERS CHAMPIONSHIP Top 16 average riders from 2018 season qualify for the Premier League Riders Championship 2019 (as long as they ride in the UK in 2019) This will be contested over a 3-round series for example Ipswich, Wolverhampton, Belle Vue Prize money paid to all 16 riders in order of where they finish in the Championship All run over a GP format BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP Top 16 riders who qualify to represent Britain Contested over a mini GP championship 5 rounds Prize money paid to all 16 riders in order of where they finish in the Championship All run over the current British Championship format (no points for semi final) but bonus points for final only. Championship Winner in 2018 qualifies for Wild Card at Cardiff in 2019 (more time to get sponsors for the event and prep) TELEVISION COVERAGE Offer the League meetings to BT Sport but an extended amount of meetings alongside an hour long weekly Speedway show where it brings interviews, news, behind the scenes footage, the cup draws etc. BSPA to have an online streaming channel where selected non BT league matches, Cup Matches, and "event meetings" such as Premiership Riders Championships are streamed worldwide on a PPV basis. Look at other platforms such as the new FREE sports channel or even ITV Sports for exclusive British Championship meetings DOUBLING UP OR DOWN As above anyone who is from a commonwealth country and double up or down as long as their average is below 4.5, they have 2 seasons of this if from a commonwealth country, 3 seasons if they are from the UK, if they go above 4.5 average in the Premiership they cannot double down for the following season. All Premier League meetings take priority over the Championship (new name for national league) THE NEW CHAMPIONSHIP LEAGUE Contested by 16 clubs featuring 6 rider teams built to a points limit of 30, current National League averages converted to old Premier League averages and rounded to the nearest .0 or .5 Teams are only allowed to pick riders from the Commonwealth countries plus one from outside of the commonwealth, out of the 6 riders per team at least 4 riders have to be from the UK. Teams are only allowed to have one rider in their team who doubles up into the Premier League to stop teams missing more than one rider per meeting through doubling up. Simple rules in place, one home meeting and one away meeting per season with one single KO Cup competition only (so same as the Premier League minus the League Cup). - The Top 16 British riders at the end of the season enter a one-off championship round to be held at Belle Vue with Prize money on offer depending on position finished The Top 16 Championship Individual would be streamed on the BSPA channel, alongside KO Cup meetings and selected League meetings, if the free sports channel were to sign up then some of the league and cup meetings can feature on that platform. LONG TERM VIEW Within 5 years you would be looking to establish a top division of 16 teams featuring no riders that double up With four teams moving up, you would be looking to replace these teams in the championship league BSPA need to work fast on adding Coventry back into the sport even if at Championship level, A London club needs to be established with the view to moving it into the top tier within 5 years Then two other clubs need to be created any two from Bradford, Halifax, Exeter, Reading, Boston, etc. sites need to be identified Opening up the championship to commonwealth riders will hopefully bring on our British youngsters but the minimum 4 brit requirement must remain, and ultimately these riders will feed into the premier league wether or not they are British, Australian, Canadian, etc. Also re guests Riders submit to bspa a willingness to be considered for the UK, this goes on a database with averages listed So if Swindon lost Doyle instead of a guest from another team which will be outlawed they either go via the championship or the list of approved guests so people like tai or a janowski can make some UK appearances Edited October 10, 2017 by CookieIpswich 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Happy Hunter 368 Posted October 10, 2017 Not taken all this in yet but could there be a problem with getting young Commonwealth riders over bearing in mind the problems that some Australians have had getting visas? Also what will be the position with getting riders from the EU after Brexit ( if it ever happens)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted October 10, 2017 I reckon you deserve a round of applause. What a pity the BSPA haven't thought of doing something similar. The world is full of pro-active people who want to improve things, and what better than to post them on line for poster to see. CookieIpswich, I take my hat off to you. I don't agree with some of the teams but that not important, what I like is that you have given this a lot of thought ....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 Not taken all this in yet but could there be a problem with getting young Commonwealth riders over bearing in mind the problems that some Australians have had getting visas? Also what will be the position with getting riders from the EU after Brexit ( if it ever happens)? I tend to give politics a miss, potentially could the series sponsor them to get them over, football seems to bring young kids over, maybe dual passports I don't know... As for brexit ha who knows what will happen I reckon you deserve a round of applause. What a pity the BSPA haven't thought of doing something similar. The world is full of pro-active people who want to improve things, and what better than to post them on line for poster to see. CookieIpswich, I take my hat off to you. I don't agree with some of the teams but that not important, what I like is that you have given this a lot of thought ....... Some of the teams are a bit pie in the sky but I reckon Peterborough fans would love theirs We can all but dream Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 You are happy then to see a couple of the standalone NL clubs go to the wall .and of course the ones which are a second team at a premiership club , happy also to see a few future riders who are currently working full time and making their way through national league hoping eventually to be proficient enough to go full time in speedway . Are you sure your'e not already part of the BSPA ? seems like you certainly have their attitude of sacrificing clubs and riders to bail out the top league and wanting to fill even the lower order with johnnie foreigner from the commonwealth . . Try building a team to within a 30 point limit, it will not bankrupt any lower level team at all With doubling up being a major problem, would you prefer to open up the lower league to all nations or just our commonwealth brothers with team building restrictions to give our UK guys a fairer crack? UK speedway can't afford young riders a full time job in its present guise, a select few maybe who are marketing savvy Respect your opinion tho keep them coming Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted October 10, 2017 Why give preference to Commonwealth riders, after the trouble from old snipe nose and his 'woohaa' brother this season, I should think a lot of folks would like to see less of them? Don't forget that the conference consists of those people who have actually put their money where their mouth is and while they do look at suggestions, they also have to look at their bank balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 if you lump the NL in the championship .the likes of buxton are history .buxton has 5 hobby riders and 2 pro's , so even if they could afford championship pay rates , 5 of their riders would struggle to get enough time off from work to fulfill the away fixtures . these commonwealth riders you would like to employ ,could not afford to come half way round the world to ride for a pittance and the benevolent pockets of UK supporters are already empty from paying out for the ones already here . It would only be called the championship, what is left would run similar to what the conference is now, if you say Buxton has two professional riders than that's a problem, this league should be semi professional at best Opening the doors but restricting to two commonwealth riders max will only include kiwi or Aussies not many speedway nations in the commonwealth These would be riders who aspire to become professional riders who will come here, work and also ride speedway to see if they make it or break it Many a young Aussie has left home for these shores to have a go at it, if some of our own riders had their attitude and determination we might have more world class riders Why give preference to Commonwealth riders, after the trouble from old snipe nose and his 'woohaa' brother this season, I should think a lot of folks would like to see less of them? Don't forget that the conference consists of those people who have actually put their money where their mouth is and while they do look at suggestions, they also have to look at their bank balance. Based on the opinion of two Aussies you can't think they are all the same, it's our own fault we don't have enough riders to go round so this is one quicker fix solution Over time you would like to think youth speedway will bring on more talent to fill most of these places Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted October 10, 2017 It would only be called the championship, what is left would run similar to what the conference is now, if you say Buxton has two professional riders than that's a problem, this league should be semi professional at best Opening the doors but restricting to two commonwealth riders max will only include kiwi or Aussies not many speedway nations in the commonwealth These would be riders who aspire to become professional riders who will come here, work and also ride speedway to see if they make it or break it Many a young Aussie has left home for these shores to have a go at it, if some of our own riders had their attitude and determination we might have more world class riders Based on the opinion of two Aussies you can't think they are all the same, it's our own fault we don't have enough riders to go round so this is one quicker fix solution Over time you would like to think youth speedway will bring on more talent to fill most of these places Oh alright then, if you wont accept criticism or suggestions there's no point! Actually there's no point anyway as the promoters have had pre-conference meetings and will pretty much have decided what they're going to do, so this is just an exercise for anoraks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 Foamfence - I accepted your criticism and suggestions by offering you a response to counter act your opinion, like you did mine. Usually people only jump back stating what you just did when you have ran out of argument yourself But, I am just kidding, appreciate your input and opinion and that what happened with Holder snr and Holder jnr, I can see from your point of view why you would not like to see that type of rider coming over to race in what currently is a league for our next generation (and a few oldies). In my time in Speedway, I've met quite a lot of moaning Aussie riders, but they usually moan because they want the best and want to win - Holder Snr and Jnr is a different kettle of fish and my opinion on that one is not for this thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starman2006 2,354 Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) LONG TERM VIEW Within 5 years you would be looking to establish a top division of 16 teams featuring no riders that double up I actually agree with some of this. Many years ago the top league had 16 teams in it. But what we dont want is a substandard league. Edited October 10, 2017 by Starman2006 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pirates Of Poole 761 Posted October 10, 2017 Have to say there is some very good ideas put forward, just a shame the BSPA don't look at it this way. A press release like this after the AGM would clear a lot of the regular year in year out questions being asked. It's all top secret!! Well done for putting your ideas forward 👍🏻 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieIpswich 249 Posted October 10, 2017 I actually agree with some of this. Many years ago the top league had 16 teams in it. But what we dont want is a substandard league. Hi mate I agree with you as well but we can only play our current cards, it will take around 5 years to build the sport here again imo to a level near to what Poland enjoy now Have to say there is some very good ideas put forward, just a shame the BSPA don't look at it this way. A press release like this after the AGM would clear a lot of the regular year in year out questions being asked. It's all top secret!! Well done for putting your ideas forward 👍🏻 Thanks mate, whatever happens let's hope they finally do something positive for the sport Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,393 Posted October 11, 2017 haven't read every word written here but it is vital that Buxton, Mildy, Plymouth, IOW etc etc are able to compete in the lower league it would mean a very very drastic cut in standards for the rest of the league which is fine by me but i expect it would meet with resistance 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,240 Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Too many teams? or not enough riders?.... Or maybe both...? No matter what system is used, unless this is sorted then the Sport cannot move forwards.. For me run with less amount of riders per team and no one in the Premiership to be included below a four point average.. Too many number sevens are out of their depth, miles behind, and add nothing to the meeting other than to give the number six an extra ride.. Do a mock up for 12 six man teams and do the same for 12 five man teams... Use the average of all this year's top sixes and top fives to ascertain a mean average, convert it to a Championship figure and use this figure for the mock ups.. It would show potential teams and how many excess riders of a reasonable level there could be to cover any replacements needed.. If set nights in the Premiership it would mean DU'ing is a positive as no clashes, meaning hopefully putting rider supply higher than the demand... Edited October 11, 2017 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Call me wolfie 677 Posted October 11, 2017 Too many teams? or not enough riders?.... Or maybe both...? No matter what system is used, unless this is sorted then the Sport cannot move forwards.. For me run with less amount of riders per team and no one in the Premiership to be included below a four point average.. Too many number sevens are out of their depth, miles behind, and add nothing to the meeting other than to give the number six an extra ride.. Do a mock up for 12 six man teams and do the same for 12 five man teams... Use the average of all this year's top sixes and top fives to ascertain a mean average, convert it to a Championship figure and use this figure for the mock ups.. It would show potential teams and how many excess riders of a reasonable level there could be to cover any replacements needed.. If set nights in the Premiership it would mean DU'ing is a positive as no clashes, meaning hopefully putting rider supply higher than the demand... If you effectively do away with reserves how is young up and coming talent ever going to get a chance in the top level, Bewley for example? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
