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Are We Seeing The Beginning Of The Demise Of The Tory Party?

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

So Rishi Sunak's wife was doing something entirely legal until she was caught, but now will now suddenly and miraculously voluntarily pay tax that she didn't need to pay (allegedly).

This is quite aside from Sunak benefitting from British offshore tax havens whilst raising taxes for the rest of us.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-wife-uk-taxes-b2054263.html

They're taking you for fools... :angry:

But she’ll retain her India tax domicile and not have to pay CGT or Inheritance Tax.

Just a thought, could we not all declare ourselves to be domiciled in India?

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21 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Just a thought, could we not all declare ourselves to be domiciled in India?

Well you'd have to have a residence in India, earn all of your income outside of the UK, and pay the (at least) 30k per year non-dom fee. So only worth it if you're earning over 100k or so.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Well you'd have to have a residence in India, earn all of your income outside of the UK, and pay the (at least) 30k per year non-dom fee. So only worth it if you're earning over 100k or so.

But those restrictions don’t apply to Sunak’s wife.

She earns income in the UK.

I think though the stumbling block would be owning a residence in India as I think only Indian nationals can buy there, but renting a home might get over it?

I don’t think it’s necessary to pay the £30k if you don’t intend to avoid Income Tax.

Edited by DC2

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30 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Well you'd have to have a residence in India, earn all of your income outside of the UK, and pay the (at least) 30k per year non-dom fee. So only worth it if you're earning over 100k or so.

I think you may be conflating domicile with residence (the two are very distinct concepts in tax law)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, arnieg said:

I think you may be conflating domicile with residence (the two are very distinct concepts in tax law)

As far as I'm aware, non doms can reside in the UK and still avoid tax on foreign earnings provided they can claim they have a permanent connection to another country and intend to return there. 

They pay a 30k fee as a non dom, increasing to 60k after a certain number of years, and you can only claim non dom status for something like 20 years. 

However, the tax avoidance only applies to foreign income and only if it's not remitted to the UK. Any UK derived or remitted income should still be taxed.

Yes, residency, tax residency and domicile are different things and it's quite complicated. Even the tax authorities don't understand it half the time, which why people get away with taking the piss.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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So you are all going to volunteer to pay more tax than you have to?  Very laudable.

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

As far as I'm aware, non doms can reside in the UK and still avoid tax on foreign earnings provided they can claim they have a permanent connection to another country and intend to return there. 

They pay a 30k fee as a non dom, increasing to 60k after a certain number of years, and you can only claim non dom status for something like 20 years. 

However, the tax avoidance only applies to foreign income and only if it's not remitted to the UK. Any UK derived income should still be taxed.

Yes, residency, tax residency and domicile are different things and it's quite complicated. Even the tax authorities don't understand it half the time, which why people get away with taking the piss.

Don't forget the difference between resident and ordinarily resident, as best exemplified by the 'Dave Clark 5's Greatest Hits' tax case.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Don't forget the difference between resident and ordinarily resident, as best exemplified by the 'Dave Clark 5's Greatest Hits' tax case.

I used 'tax residency' in the context of 'ordinarily resident' although simply being resident does not mean you can avoid tax. 

Resident can of course also mean your civil status in a country, something that some on here seem to confuse with citizenship. :rolleyes:

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wealdstone said:

So you are all going to volunteer to pay more tax than you have to?  Very laudable.

Unless you're super rich, it's still sensible to ensure you're covered for state-provided healthcare, pensions and unemployment benefits.

Whilst you may consider that you'll never really need the state pension, far less unemployment benefits, having to pay for something like cancer treatment could very quickly wipe out any wealth you've accumulated.

And of course private pensions and other investments may fail or be ripped off, and your health may fail leaving you unable to work. Even a million quid won't go that far these days...

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Unless you're super rich, it's still sensible to ensure you're covered for state-provided healthcare, pensions and unemployment benefits.

Whilst you may consider that you'll never really need the state pension, far less unemployment benefits, having to pay for something like cancer treatment could very quickly wipe out any wealth you've accumulated.

And of course private pensions and other investments may fail or be ripped off, and your health may fail leaving you unable to work. Even a million quid won't go that far these days...

Agree with all that, but does not get to the heart of the question. What I will say that in any system there is always going to be someone or a group of people better. off than you.  And another group who criticise them for being so.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wr off than youwt   . vng 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, wealdstone said:

Agree with all that, but does not get to the heart of the question. What I will say that in any system there is always going to be someone or a group of people better. off than you.  And another group who criticise them for being so.  

We have to be realistic that some people will variously work harder, have better ideas, or have better opportunities and/or education no matter how much you try to equalise things. In the case of the first couple of things it's probably fair that such people gain more reward for their endeavours, whilst in the latter couple of cases it's probably fair that more successful people contribute to giving others similar opportunities to them. The extent to which you aim or can equalise things is a matter of societal compromise which different people will have different ideas about, and will change with whatever flavour of government is in power. 

However, in a fair and just society all but the poorest people should be paying some tax, and wealthier people should be paying more than those with less. Taking advantage of tax havens - that in many cases were set-up by greedy manipulative characters to exploit lax or non-existent regulation in forgotten former outposts of the British Empire - in order to pay little or no tax is not only immoral but should simply not be allowed. To put it succinctly, I don't have problems with people making honest profits - even large ones - but they should be making a proportionate financial contribution to society the same as everyone else. 

I do think some tax competition is desirable to keep governments honest and not simply think they can "squeeze the rich until the pips squeak", but there should be minimum rates of corporate and personal tax in every jurisdiction around the world. They should also be legislation to limit how costs can be charged across jurisdictions, which is one of the biggest tax avoidance scams, and also common agreements on how individuals residing in multiple jurisdictions declare their earnings and how they should be taxed on those.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby
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On 4/9/2022 at 4:12 PM, DC2 said:

Just a thought, could we not all declare ourselves to be domiciled in India?

It’s of course ironic that Sunak and his wife claimed residency in various other countries whilst their party denied such things to British citizens. One law for them, another for the plebs…

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53 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It’s of course ironic that Sunak and his wife claimed residency in various other countries whilst their party denied such things to British citizens. One law for them, another for the plebs…

It’s corrupt that only the rich have access to loopholes, both in terms of knowing about them and having the means to activate them.

There should be a government loophole website that everyone can access and where choosing an exemption is simply a matter of entering your NI and passport numbers and pressing a button.

No £30,000 fees or tax and legal experts required.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2022 at 10:15 AM, wealdstone said:

So you are all going to volunteer to pay more tax than you have to?  Very laudable.

i don't have a choice of how much tax i pay, it is taken off me at source, because i haven't got the money to be able to avoid tax,

i am not envious of her wealth, a few of the exploited workers in India who produce her wealth may be envious, i just want people who choose to live in the UK to pay the tax they have a moral, if not legal, duty to pay

Edited by The Third Man

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2 hours ago, The Third Man said:

i don't have a choice of how much tax i pay, it is taken off me at source, because i haven't got the money to be able to avoid tax,

i am not envious of her wealth, a few of the exploited workers in India who produce her wealth may be envious, i just want people who choose to live in the UK to pay the tax they have a moral, if not legal, duty to pay

Very laudable!!! I don't have a choice either , but I have no shame in saying if there were a legal means of paying less, I would not  hesitate to take it . I suspect if being totally honest most on here would think the same.  This is not some dodgy trust or tax haven  but a situation that has been available for years to those that meet the criteria. What you are saying is  that those that you perceive as rich should not take advantage of  legislation available to every one,

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