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steve roberts

Are We Seeing The Beginning Of The Demise Of The Tory Party?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

But the leader of a major political party (and the only real opposition) can break the same law without punishment? Really?

The fundamental difference is that the PM and his government is making the policies that everyone else is forced to follow. The Leader of the Opposition is not.

With BoJo there’s also the issue of gravity. He broke the law multiple times and then denied it.

I hold no candle for Starmer at all and couldn’t care less whether he’s Leader of the Opposition or not. But again, he nor Rayner are (directly) making the law.

Edited by Humphrey Appleby

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21 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The fundamental difference is that the PM and his government is making the policies that everyone else is forced to follow. The Leader of the Opposition is not.

With BoJo there’s also the issue of gravity. He broke the law multiple times and then denied it.

I hold no candle for Starmer at all and couldn’t care less whether he’s Leader of the Opposition or not. But again, he nor Rayner are (directly) making the law.

Poor old Starmer, the only time he hosts a drinks gathering he's caught. If you believe that you'll believe anything. Oh, and he denied it too.

I like the '(directly)' bit - he and Rayner are as guilty as BoJo and his crowd. 

But, as EI posted, it's about the timing and the reasons for needing to let the cat out of the bag as regards BoJo. If it had been immediate (after the first one would have been about right - imagine how many law-breaking instances that would have prevented) I'd see your point.

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

"Blew the whistle" is a well-known phrase used by many before me, so no idea why you're complaining it's an expression of mine. Seems like you're just trying to score points in the way that you're complaining about the Labour Party doing it. :rolleyes:

I'm not really interested in title tattle coming from the various factions which is largely irrelevant in the context of a major European war and cost of living increase as you say.

However, Prime Minister and senior government officials criminally breaking the law - especially one they formulated - is a much more serious matter though. MPs watching porn whilst on publicly paid duty is also a matter of public interest.

As someone said a week or two back you seem to have become so consumed with bitterness over Brexit that it obscures you ability to conduct rational debate.

Blew the whistle is indeed a common enough expression but a VB has pointed out the issue is timing not the act itself, which is the point you are trying to avoid. 

If you are not interested in so called tittle tattle ( in your opinion ) then their is little point in you taking part in the discussion. For many, though , the integrity or otherwise of those who aspire to leadership is as relevant as that of the leaders themsemselves.

The Prime Minister and senior government officials have paid fixed penalty notices, which are not breaches of the criminal law. They are issued by the police, not the courts, and therefore there is no criminal conviction or criminal record. However as I said earlier the actions of Angela Rayner do not exonerate partygate , but are a separate matter.

The issue of MPs watching porn or any other irrelevant material in public time is not part of the discussion the MP concerned has resigned on the advice of his constituency party. That is not a matter of dispute apart from your word salad which doesn’t really seem to have a point.

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2 hours ago, YerRopes said:

Johnson lied to parliament, 'no Covid rules were broken'. 

For that reason alone, he should be gone. 

Joint Intelligence Committee to Blair “ the evidence ( of WMDs ) is sketchy and spasmodic” .

Blair to Parliament ( and the country ) “the evidence is comprehensive and convincing “ 

What is that if not a lie ?

He didn’t resign, so there is your precedent . There are not many who have not been at least economical with the truth at times if you dig deep enough. That is the system we live under.

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53 minutes ago, Vincent Blachshadow said:

Poor old Starmer, the only time he hosts a drinks gathering he's caught. If you believe that you'll believe anything. Oh, and he denied it too.

I like the '(directly)' bit - he and Rayner are as guilty as BoJo and his crowd. 

But, as EI posted, it's about the timing and the reasons for needing to let the cat out of the bag as regards BoJo. If it had been immediate (after the first one would have been about right - imagine how many law-breaking instances that would have prevented) I'd see your point.

But Cummings was 'on side' at the first instances. A man scorned and all that. 

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2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The fundamental difference is that the PM and his government is making the policies that everyone else is forced to follow. The Leader of the Opposition is not.

Did Starmer or Rayner vote against the restrictions imposed due to Covid? If they voted for (which they did) then they as part of Parliament are responsible for those rules being implemented.

The real concern is that just Like Johnson they lied about Rayner being present which means they were trying to cover something up. If it had been a genuine mistake why didn't Rayner point it out at the time?

I've said many times that I think what Johnson did is despicable and he should go but if Starmer was doing the same thing it is no less despicable because he sits a few yards away in the house.

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20 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I also suspect a number will eventually be proven to have colluded with foreign powers hostile to UK interests.

 

Indeed. Many acted against the national interest by colluding with the eu during the negotiations.Loads of Labour and Lib Dem front benchers (plus a few tories) were in Brussels every other day , asking the eu to take a hostile stance against the UK's decision to leave. Treason really and action should have been taken against them. In other news , i actually agree with my globe trotting mate Air Miles for once :D

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7 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Joint Intelligence Committee to Blair “ the evidence ( of WMDs ) is sketchy and spasmodic” .

Blair to Parliament ( and the country ) “the evidence is comprehensive and convincing “ 

What is that if not a lie ?

He didn’t resign, so there is your precedent . There are not many who have not been at least economical with the truth at times if you dig deep enough. That is the system we live under.

Johnson lied again in his interview with Ms Reid.. 

He didn't introduce the free bus pass, it was introduced in 1973, he disabled the start time to a later 9:30.. 

You like to think off yourself as an independent thinker, but you are nothing but a right wing apologist.. 

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, YerRopes said:

Johnson lied again in his interview with Ms Reid.. 

He didn't introduce the free bus pass, it was introduced in 1973, he disabled the start time to a later 9:30.. 

You like to think off yourself as an independent thinker, but you are nothing but a right wing apologist.. 

The question you are struggling to avoid is did  Blair lie to Parliament ? A simple yes or no will suffice .

Edited by E I Addio

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Posted (edited)

I'll happily answer that.. 

I liked Blair up until his claim that Iraq's wmd could hit GB in 45 minutes, I watched it live.. 

I changed my mind after that. 

What's your excuse for continually supporting Johnson and the tory's perpetually lies, when you should know so much better.. 

You have no answer do you? 

Edited by YerRopes

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9 minutes ago, YerRopes said:

I'll happily answer that.. 

I liked Blair up until his claim that Iraq's wmd could hit GB in 45 minutes, I watched it live.. 

I changed my mind after that. 

What's your excuse for continually supporting Johnson and the tory's perpetually lies, when you should no such better.. 

You have no answer do you? 

Actually I have two answers .

The first answer is that I sit here chuckling when the snowflakes come on a discussion forum then start getting all uppity when someone voices a different  opinion.

Second answer : I  said on here a long time ago that if a politicians wife cant trust him why should the public ? That said, he is till entitled to a fair hearing like anybody else, and  I think that is the bit that gets up one or two peoples noses.  The choice offered to the public at the last GE was between Boris and Corbyn and if I remember correctly you didn't like Corbyn either. 

The whole political system is flawed and it operates within  a world wide system that is even more flawed. Once you accept that and make the most of your life instead of wishing for something thats not going to happen life becomes much simpler.  Moaning doesn't change anything . I cant believe the number of people on here that don't understand that..

 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Actually I have two answers .

The first answer is that I sit here chuckling when the snowflakes come on a discussion forum then start getting all uppity when someone voices a different  opinion.

Second answer : I  said on here a long time ago that if a politicians wife cant trust him why should the public ? That said, he is till entitled to a fair hearing like anybody else, and  I think that is the bit that gets up one or two peoples noses.  The choice offered to the public at the last GE was between Boris and Corbyn and if I remember correctly you didn't like Corbyn either. 

The whole political system is flawed and it operates within  a world wide system that is even more flawed. Once you accept that and make the most of your life instead of wishing for something thats not going to happen life becomes much simpler.  Moaning doesn't change anything . I cant believe the number of people on here that don't understand that..

 

 

What a very pompous reply.. 

I answered your question. 

As per usual you demand answers from other posters, but deflect and fail to answer any questions asked of you. 

That's why I mostly ignore your interruptions.. 

Edited by YerRopes
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It's a circus full of lies from both sides.

 

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