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Gresham

Team Combined Average Limit...

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SCB... it should be 45 :t:

I can accept that from an ideological standpoint but not a mathmatically one

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If there were 4 heats, 15 heats, 30 heats or 600 heats then the points limit would still be about 42ish.

 

What the BSPA should do is go back to 13 heats, then have a 42 point limit and people will think we have a high limit as you only need 39 to draw! Its a winner I tell you!

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Just to expand on the above, some heats 1-14 will raise the average, some will decrease it, but over the 14 heats, assuming all riders take 4 rides, 42 will be the average team average (assuming at least 3 finishers per race).

 

In reality, combined team averages will tend to drop slightly below 42 for various reasons.

 

Some races will only finish with 2 riders (or even one) and points will not be awarded for those, and starting exclusions still count as a ride but a reserve replacement might be made. And of course guests skew things as the rides of the guest don't count towards either their average or the average of the absent rider, and as I remember, any rides of a No. 8 also don't count.

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In reality, combined team averages will tend to drop slightly below 42 for various reasons.

 

Some races will only finish with 2 riders (or even one) and points will not be awarded for those, and starting exclusions still count as a ride but a reserve replacement might be made. And of course guests skew things as the rides of the guest don't count towards either their average or the average of the absent rider, and as I remember, any rides of a No. 8 also don't count.

All of which makes you think that using averages to two decimal places for team building is ludicrous. But that's another story.

 

Mind even if the averages were rounded to zero decimal places the limit should still be 42

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All of which makes you think that using averages to two decimal places for team building is ludicrous. But that's another story.

 

Mind even if the averages were rounded to zero decimal places the limit should still be 42

Why round to 0 decimal places? Why not round to the nearest 1? Or the nearest 10? Or why not the 16 decimal places?

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I just wish the forum could employ a 'maths monitor'.

 

Those with a self-evident blindspot for statistics could then be taken away for their own safety.

Where they can be helped to understand that they must SHUT UP and stop posting things about averages.

 

Year after year, month after month they just insist on doing this time after time.

 

Is this what it is like at a BSPA AGM ?

Like a remedial class for people that really believe they understand stuff when they so clearly don't ?

Edited by Grand Central
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Is this what it is like at a BSPA AGM ? really believe they understand stuff when they so clearly don't ?

Yes

 

I was once commissioned to write and submit a paper rebutting a rather mad idea for recalculating averages that one of the leading lights of the BSPA was pushing for.

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Yes

 

I was once commissioned to write and submit a paper rebutting a rather mad idea for recalculating averages that one of the leading lights of the BSPA was pushing for.

Averages - I don't think about them - I leave that to others who are more qualified.

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Why not after a race, 1st and 2nd take of their helmets and have a game of tiddly winks to contest who has the silliest underwear on.

 

Slayer blasting out the tannoy, half price pies from the snack van during the game of tiddly winks, to keep the punters happy.

Raffle tickets on sale to win a haircut at "off wae the lot" barbers in the outerhebridies.

Somebody faints at snackbar queuing for pies. Tiddly winks still hasnt been contested yet cause....yes wait for it....somebody misplaced them so the clerk of the course is away home to get his favourite set so the meeting can continue.

Edited by baba

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I just wish the forum could employ a 'maths monitor'.

 

Those with a self-evident blindspot for statistics could then be taken away for their own safety.

Where they can be helped to understand that they must SHUT UP and stop posting things about averages.

 

Year after year, month after month they just insist on doing this time after time.

 

Is this what it is like at a BSPA AGM ?

Like a remedial class for people that really believe they understand stuff when they so clearly don't ?

Perhaps a 'logical monitor' should be introduced instead...as imo, it is this fixation with 'statistics' that has ruined Speedway over the years.

 

Rules, amount of rides, amount of races, amount of points awarded etc, etc have changed frequently over the years, as do the average limits.

 

It's a complete joke, and has had a negative effect on the sport for many.

 

Speedway should be about the racing and continuity of riders at a club. Fans getting accustomed to that team and feeling affiliated to them. It isn't.

 

The sport is fixated with stats...it has become so dominant in the sport that it has had a negative effect.

 

It feels more like Trainspotters convention mixed with Countdown ;-)

 

Whilst everyone can sit around with their calculators, working out averages, coming to whatever we think it should be....perhaps we should get our heads out of these stats, stop being so pedantic and get the sport back to what it should be all about.

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Which backs up my point completely.

 

Those that have no interest in any of the issues surrounding averages and the rules to which they relate should keep quiet.

And leave it to those who understand.

 

They could then just go along in their uninformed, blinkered way, and 'enjoy the racing'.

 

But they won't.

They keep coming on threads like this and making daft points about the very subject they don't understand.

Seemingly JUST to display their ignorance.

 

.

Edited by Grand Central
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Which backs up my point completely.

 

Those that have no interest in any of the issues surrounding averages and the rules to which they relate should keep quiet.

And leave it to those who understand.

 

They could then just go along in their uninformed, blinkered way, and 'enjoy the racing'.

 

But they won't.

They keep coming on threads like this and making daft points about the very subject they don't understand.

Seemingly JUST to display their ignorance.

 

.

Hear Hear, Gresham would soon have complaints it one team thrashed Somerset with a team points of say 50 to Gary's 38. Or if young reserve riders were not getting rides, cos the top riders were taking all their rides and we ended up with no young riders of our own. More criticism then. Asking for stronger teams with a higher points limit and running out of riders. The list could go on, but ignorance of statistics should not rule the sport.

Edited by Tsunami

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Perhaps a 'logical monitor' should be introduced instead...as imo, it is this fixation with 'statistics' that has ruined Speedway over the years.

Maths is the very core of logic. If you can't do maths then you can't do logic. And these days it seems to be a badge of honour when people can't do maths which is worrying then because it suggests they can't do logic.

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Perhaps a 'logical monitor' should be introduced instead...as imo, it is this fixation with 'statistics' that has ruined Speedway over the years.

 

Rules, amount of rides, amount of races, amount of points awarded etc, etc have changed frequently over the years, as do the average limits.

 

It's a complete joke, and has had a negative effect on the sport for many.

 

Speedway should be about the racing and continuity of riders at a club. Fans getting accustomed to that team and feeling affiliated to them. It isn't.

 

The sport is fixated with stats...it has become so dominant in the sport that it has had a negative effect.

 

It feels more like Trainspotters convention mixed with Countdown ;-)

 

Whilst everyone can sit around with their calculators, working out averages, coming to whatever we think it should be....perhaps we should get our heads out of these stats, stop being so pedantic and get the sport back to what it should be all about.

 

The usual post.

 

When you don't understand something and even when it's explained still REFUSE to understand, resort to the old 'it's a big joke' line.

As a side note, I assume the OP was taking the p with his suggestion? Surely, surely after the number of fines the topic has been covered no one genuinely thinks like this?

 

Some simply won't listen I'm afraid waiheke.

 

On the Wolves fan page a fan, supported by quite a few others, was rambling on about how weak the league was because it didn't have 20+ 9pt average riders like it did in the late 60's (time period he quoted). A few of us quickly explained that was due to the size of the league, the heat format and the fact bonus pts were included in the averages. Of course, rather than learning something they continue to argue and came out with a classic....

 

"Are you seriously telling me that if 20 Tony Rickardsson level riders were in British Speedway now they wouldn't all have 9+ averages, lol!"

 

I replied that I am categorically 100% stating that would be the case and explained how often they would be racing against each other. The response? A block and he left the group.

 

It's staggering just how some refuse to learn.

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All of which makes you think that using averages to two decimal places for team building is ludicrous. But that's another story.

 

Any system using averages is going to be flawed, however its implemented. However, it's probably still the best and fairest method for measuring the relative contribution of riders, and by extension regulating team strengths.

 

But the way the points limit is currently implemented is too punitive, provides no incentives for teams to use young riders and build rather than buy teams, nor offer much in the way of team continuity from year-to-year. It is possible to adapt the points limit to facilitate this, but when you see some of the misunderstandings about how things work now, I fear it would be a difficult sell.

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