Team Combined Average Limit...

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

The usual post.

 

When you don't understand something and even when it's explained still REFUSE to understand, resort to the old 'it's a big joke' line.

 

Some simply won't listen I'm afraid waiheke.

 

On the Wolves fan page a fan, supported by quite a few others, was rambling on about how weak the league was because it didn't have 20+ 9pt average riders like it did in the late 60's (time period he quoted). A few of us quickly explained that was due to the size of the league, the heat format and the fact bonus pts were included in the averages. Of course, rather than learning something they continue to argue and came out with a classic....

 

"Are you seriously telling me that if 20 Tony Rickardsson level riders were in British Speedway now they wouldn't all have 9+ averages, lol!"

 

I replied that I am categorically 100% stating that would be the case and explained how often they would be racing against each other. The response? A block and he left the group.

 

It's staggering just how some refuse to learn.

For some Folk - Maths/Arithmatic is not their forté.

 

I have a basic understanding of Maths, however, nowadays it bores me. I only need to use it to get through life, household accounts and things like that.

 

I have read with a certain interest, the Posts on this Thread, and it is obvious to me that a few people on here are Statistic Fanatics. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but if Speedway wants to attract younger Supporters it needs to simplify the mathematics/statistics.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,954]

There is nothing wrong with that at all, but if Speedway wants to attract younger Supporters it needs to simplify the mathematics/statistics.

 

 

Why do you think young people aren't interested in mathematics and statistics? I can honestly say that the mathematical aspects of the sport were part of the original attraction for me.

 

What's discouraging people is the archaic image of the sport, whether it's actually a correct perception or not.

[SCB 0]

 

Why do you think young people aren't interested in mathematics and statistics? I can honestly say that the mathematical aspects of the sport were part of the original attraction for me.

 

What's discouraging people is the archaic image of the sport, whether it's actually a correct perception or not.

Same here. I used to love trying to build teams within a limit, work out what changes could be made and also working out riders averages.

 

 

 

If people cant do maths thats fine, but stop trying. Thy need to learn that the point limit is NOT connected to the points available in a meeting. Maybe the solution is to not multiple averages by 4 and have a points limit of about 10. People wont get so confused then.

[BWitcher 12,453]

For some Folk - Maths/Arithmatic is not their forté.

 

I have a basic understanding of Maths, however, nowadays it bores me. I only need to use it to get through life, household accounts and things like that.

 

I have read with a certain interest, the Posts on this Thread, and it is obvious to me that a few people on here are Statistic Fanatics. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but if Speedway wants to attract younger Supporters it needs to simplify the mathematics/statistics.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with being good at Maths or not. It's perfectly understandable to assume some of the things they do, such as 45 should be the pts limit because there 90pts in a match etc.. However, once it's explained in a pretty basic fashion some folk are just too pig ignorant to listen.

 

As for 'statistics'.. seriously? It's quite the opposite I would say. Younger sports fans are obsessed with statistics and it is an area that the sport is failing in massively.

 

Every sport out there, there are apps crammed full of stats.

 

Speedway is lagging way behind in that area and it is one area they could do far more in.

[Grand Central 2,654]

For some Folk - Maths/Arithmatic is not their forté.

 

I have a basic understanding of Maths, however, nowadays it bores me. I only need to use it to get through life, household accounts and things like that.

 

I have read with a certain interest, the Posts on this Thread, and it is obvious to me that a few people on here are Statistic Fanatics. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but if Speedway wants to attract younger Supporters it needs to simplify the mathematics/statistics.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

And what a bizarre opinion it is in that case.

 

Maths is not some alien concept that would be of no interest to youngsters.

Why would you think it was?

Just because it's not for you ?

 

The maths involved in Speedway can be fascinating and entertaining.

Why remove something that could be a draw for youngsters if deployed properly.

For me it has always been an essential part and it gave me hours of interest in my younger years.

 

Our future, especially post Brexit, will depend on the next generations being enthused by sujects like Maths. And to putting that knowledge into practice.

 

Please stop judging people, and especially the youth, by your own very low standards.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Grand Central

[The White Knight 9,039]

 

Absolutely nothing to do with being good at Maths or not. It's perfectly understandable to assume some of the things they do, such as 45 should be the pts limit because there 90pts in a match etc.. However, once it's explained in a pretty basic fashion some folk are just too pig ignorant to listen.

 

As for 'statistics'.. seriously? It's quite the opposite I would say. Younger sports fans are obsessed with statistics and it is an area that the sport is failing in massively.

 

Every sport out there, there are apps crammed full of stats.

 

Speedway is lagging way behind in that area and it is one area they could do far more in.

OK - so I'm wrong.

 

The current System isn't exactly dragging newcomers in to watch the Sport is it.

 

On this issue I am ambivalent. I used to enjoy plaing around with figures. I can't be bothered these days.

 

Just my view, that's all - not bothered one way or the other personally.

And what a bizarre opinion it is in that case.

 

Maths is not some alien concept that would be of no interest to youngsters.

Why would you think it was?

Just because it's not for you ?

 

The maths involved in Speedway can be fascinating and entertaining.

Why remove something that could be a draw for youngsters if deployed properly.

For me it has always been an essential part and it gave me hours of interest in my younger years.

 

Our future, especially post Brexit, will depend on the next generations being enthused by sujects like Maths. And to putting that knowledge into practice.

 

Please stop judging people, and especially the youth, by your own very low standards.

Oh - for Pete's sake. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

I thought this was a discussion Forum.

[Grand Central 2,654]

OK - so I'm wrong.

 

The current System isn't exactly dragging newcomers in to watch the Sport is it.

 

On this issue I am ambivalent. I used to enjoy plaing around with figures. I can't be bothered these days.

 

Just my view, that's all - not bothered one way or the other personally.

Then why the hell are you cluttering up threads if you don't give a toss ?

 

That is just perverse.

[The White Knight 9,039]

Then why the hell are you cluttering up threads if you don't give a toss ?

 

That is just perverse.

No - I'm just passing an opinion, that is what the Forum is for - isn't it?.

 

Not that I expect someone like you to understand that.

 

At least, most of the time I can be civil with folk - even if I don't agree with them. Unlike your good self it would appear.

[enotian 562]

 

As for 'statistics'.. seriously? It's quite the opposite I would say. Younger sports fans are obsessed with statistics and it is an area that the sport is failing in massively.

 

Every sport out there, there are apps crammed full of stats.

 

Speedway is lagging way behind in that area and it is one area they could do far more in.

 

Totally agree. Look at the big franchise sports of American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey all crammed full of stats which really add something to the commentary. Cricket being a fine British example to the point where TMS have a resident statistician to point out key milestones. All of which are fairly simplistic averages and rankings adding interest even when the action is lacking.

Football doesn't readily lend itself to such statistical analysis but look at the OPTA stats a commentators dream. John Motson is lorded for use of stats.

I'm sure it would add colour to speedway if the announcers/presenters/commentators could quote the latest statistics such as a riders average from gate 4 or who has the most points in the league from heat 10. There are numerous possibilities which I'm sure would be collated if a betting company were invited to collaborate. Could even lead to sponsorship opportunities with prize money for riders heading various categories. Just who was the best rider from gate 1 in 2017?? Not essential to the plot but interesting to know.

All the best things in life have layers. For some people watching 4 bikes racing around an oval is enough, others like to keep score, some like to know the stats to aid predictions, some like the mechanical/technical aspects and some even enjoy knowing about the personal lives of the competitors. If people enjoy it it's all good.

 

 

PS round to zero decimal places for team building so it's far easier to make replacements without being constrained because a rider is 0.05 over the rider they're replacing or restricting team building because the total exceeds the limit by a fraction. I recall in the 80's Eastbourne not being allowed to track the team they wanted because their total came to something like 0.01 over the limit. As such I think someone like Darren Standing was forced out of the team on that basis. Nonsensical.

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

Totally agree. Look at the big franchise sports of American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey all crammed full of stats which really add something to the commentary. Cricket being a fine British example to the point where TMS have a resident statistician to point out key milestones. All of which are fairly simplistic averages and rankings adding interest even when the action is lacking.

Football doesn't readily lend itself to such statistical analysis but look at the OPTA stats a commentators dream. John Motson is lorded for use of stats.

I'm sure it would add colour to speedway if the announcers/presenters/commentators could quote the latest statistics such as a riders average from gate 4 or who has the most points in the league from heat 10. There are numerous possibilities which I'm sure would be collated if a betting company were invited to collaborate. Could even lead to sponsorship opportunities with prize money for riders heading various categories. Just who was the best rider from gate 1 in 2017?? Not essential to the plot but interesting to know.

All the best things in life have layers. For some people watching 4 bikes racing around an oval is enough, others like to keep score, some like to know the stats to aid predictions, some like the mechanical/technical aspects and some even enjoy knowing about the personal lives of the competitors. If people enjoy it it's all good.

 

 

PS round to zero decimal places for team building so it's far easier to make replacements without being constrained because a rider is 0.05 over the rider they're replacing or restricting team building because the total exceeds the limit by a fraction. I recall in the 80's Eastbourne not being allowed to track the team they wanted because their total came to something like 0.01 over the limit. As such I think someone like Darren Standing was forced out of the team on that basis. Nonsensical.

 

100% spot on.

 

Statistics and 'data' play a much larger part in football now than you give credit for though, especially on the management side of things where everything is analysed to the nth degree.

 

Again, this is an area where speedway lags behind. You mention about riders and their average from certain gates, I've done such an analysis myself as you may have seen me mention previously on this forum. Nicolai Klindt over his spell riding for Wolves averaged over 8 from gates 3 and 4 and under 4 from the inside gates at Monmore Green. That's a massively significant difference and a clued up team manager racing at Monmore with Klindt at reserve (or any other rider with such a split) could gain a significant advantage.

 

However, try mentioning it and most in the sport think you are just talking nonsense. You can guarantee it would be capitalised on in almost any other sport.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

Apparently there were a few on Facebook expecting Covatti to start at reserve for Ipswich next year on the basis he was named last when the team was revealed!

 

That says it all about some fans grasp of averages.

[SCB 0]

 

PS round to zero decimal places for team building so it's far easier to make replacements without being constrained because a rider is 0.05 over the rider they're replacing or restricting team building because the total exceeds the limit by a fraction. I recall in the 80's Eastbourne not being allowed to track the team they wanted because their total came to something like 0.01 over the limit. As such I think someone like Darren Standing was forced out of the team on that basis. Nonsensical.

This arguement again. And what happens when you want to sign a rider who last year averaged 4.51 and only have 4 points to play with? Under your rules he's now a 5 so doesn't fit. You also have the issue that a rich teams would sign 7 riders who averages x.49 and the poor teams would be left with 7 riders who averages x.51 meaning the rich team will have a team 4.5 point higher.

 

The more decimal places you do averages to, the easier it is to sign replacements in reality, not the other way around. To take your idea to the extreme, lets round all riders to the nearest 6 points, making everyone 0,6 or 12, all riders would fit into one of 3 categories, much easier to sign replacement right?

[Tsunami 10,219]

 

Totally agree. Look at the big franchise sports of American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey all crammed full of stats which really add something to the commentary. Cricket being a fine British example to the point where TMS have a resident statistician to point out key milestones. All of which are fairly simplistic averages and rankings adding interest even when the action is lacking.

Football doesn't readily lend itself to such statistical analysis but look at the OPTA stats a commentators dream. John Motson is lorded for use of stats.

I'm sure it would add colour to speedway if the announcers/presenters/commentators could quote the latest statistics such as a riders average from gate 4 or who has the most points in the league from heat 10. There are numerous possibilities which I'm sure would be collated if a betting company were invited to collaborate. Could even lead to sponsorship opportunities with prize money for riders heading various categories. Just who was the best rider from gate 1 in 2017?? Not essential to the plot but interesting to know.

All the best things in life have layers. For some people watching 4 bikes racing around an oval is enough, others like to keep score, some like to know the stats to aid predictions, some like the mechanical/technical aspects and some even enjoy knowing about the personal lives of the competitors. If people enjoy it it's all good.

 

 

PS round to zero decimal places for team building so it's far easier to make replacements without being constrained because a rider is 0.05 over the rider they're replacing or restricting team building because the total exceeds the limit by a fraction. I recall in the 80's Eastbourne not being allowed to track the team they wanted because their total came to something like 0.01 over the limit. As such I think someone like Darren Standing was forced out of the team on that basis. Nonsensical.

I remember in the 00's, Ray Morton wanted to ride for Hull, but was only 0.01 over the teams points limit and the move never happened. It seems hard, but todays 0.01 is tomorrows 0.02 / 0.03 etc. Thing was he was wanting to return to Hull as his wife was from there I believe, but stats are stats and have to be obeyed.

[False dawn 2,298]

 

Totally agree. Look at the big franchise sports of American Football, Baseball, Basketball, Ice Hockey all crammed full of stats which really add something to the commentary. Cricket being a fine British example to the point where TMS have a resident statistician to point out key milestones. All of which are fairly simplistic averages and rankings adding interest even when the action is lacking.

Football doesn't readily lend itself to such statistical analysis but look at the OPTA stats a commentators dream. John Motson is lorded for use of stats.

I'm sure it would add colour to speedway if the announcers/presenters/commentators could quote the latest statistics such as a riders average from gate 4 or who has the most points in the league from heat 10. There are numerous possibilities which I'm sure would be collated if a betting company were invited to collaborate. Could even lead to sponsorship opportunities with prize money for riders heading various categories. Just who was the best rider from gate 1 in 2017?? Not essential to the plot but interesting to know.

All the best things in life have layers. For some people watching 4 bikes racing around an oval is enough, others like to keep score, some like to know the stats to aid predictions, some like the mechanical/technical aspects and some even enjoy knowing about the personal lives of the competitors. If people enjoy it it's all good.

Love it.

KL used to show lap time splits a few years ago. You could have an award for the fastest flying lap.

[Gemini 4,894]

I'm not interested in statistics as they're much too confusing for me so I don't comment about them on here, but I do know if I'm anywhere near False dawn at a Speedway meeting he will know exactly which gate positions have been the best all night. It's just easier to ask him than try to understand things myself.