steve roberts 9,242 Posted November 27, 2017 Would that be Ellesmere Port 1985? And the BSPA should be crucified for it because they've caused the issue over many numbers of seasons. Sounds familiar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 27, 2017 Len Silvers book describes the hand to mouth existence they had even in the seventies. For a lot of promoters it was like being a one man band. Lens book for example describes how he woukd travel up to Sunderland on race day with George Barclay ( then the Sunderland captain ) open up the Stadium, get the tractor out and prepare the track himself, run the meeting, collect the takings, do the accounts and the following weeks programme notes in the car coming back home while George Baclay drove, then at the half way point swap seats and George would write his captains programme notes while Len drove and th whole operation was basically done in one long day. In later years when Len returned to the sport after a break he put in a tremendous amount of work to get his Sliver Ski business going which proved to be very profitable but most of the profits went into buying and running Rye House. Len Sliver the man is a very single minded and difficult man to get on with but Len Silver the promoter has ploughed a fortune into the sport for very little return and could probably have been a multi millionaire with his involvement in Speedwáy . All that is of course light years away from Swindon who seem to have wasted money on expensive riders that couldn't afford for years, and have a terrible reputation for not paying riders or keeping them waiting a long time for their money. Every word of that is true. We were told this a few years ago, in conversation with the same George Barclay. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted November 27, 2017 Back in the '60s Trevor Redmond reckoned that if he could break even through the season then his promoters share of the Wembley Final payout was what made the year profitable. Of course that's all long gone. ...something John Berry always raised with the intervention of the GPs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argos 262 Posted November 27, 2017 With the surprising ( to me news ) that although Swindon had a good season on track ( or what is considered to be one ) and yet they had a financially loss making season. So did any tracks in any of the leagues, at least break even? Were is it stated they lost money? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 584 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) One promoter told me after his team (names & dates ommitted to protect the guilty and the innocent) spent the season slamming in the 5-1's & almost winning for fun that the stellar campaign cost him an extra £10,000 on bonus points alone. Crowds increased only a tad so he expected to actually lose a bit more money than otherwise. Such a scenario didn't occur to me, nor prob to many fans.... Edited November 28, 2017 by Martin Mauger 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teaboy279 1,038 Posted November 28, 2017 Kent made a profit again in 2017 as it has done every season so far, Len said in his end of season speech. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,235 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Were is it stated they lost money?Rosco quoted in the Speedway Star... "We won the league, but had a hefty loss"... And yet teams are still built with seven riders? In most loss making businesses they cut the workforce to reduce payroll... In British Speedway they seem to want to keep the numbers up but save money by having have lesser quality... Difficult to achieve I would suspect when using a points limit as 'lesser riders' can all of a sudden have an average that increases their worth to the team, thus increasing their pay requests.... In years gone by how often did a 'four point superstar' get plucked from the various leagues around the world? These riders would invariably finish with a minimum six point plus average, and also invariably, would be paid well above 'reserve money' when riding at number six at the start of the season... Basic supply and demand rules apply... Have less places per team, thus more riders vying for those slots, and then you are in a much stronger position re how much you pay.... Edited November 28, 2017 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vince 9,454 Posted November 28, 2017 Basic supply and demand rules apply... Have less places per team, thus more riders vying for those slots, and then you are in a much stronger position re how much you pay.... Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted November 28, 2017 Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used. correct. and while some fans say "clubs should cut costs and riders cut costs", when a rider performs badly due to having substandard equipment, many of the same fans will be calling for the rider to be replaces 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted November 28, 2017 Were is it stated they lost money? I am only quoting the comments Rosco made in the Speedway Star " we won the league, but had a hefty loss - it wasn't a very profitable year ". I took that to mean they lost a considerable amount of money. Perhaps in Swindon "hefty" has another mean - £29.99? I am not stirring it re Swindon but concerned about the actual viability of UK speedway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,235 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Sounds logical but if riders can't at least break even riding Speedway they will just give up rather than invest in the equipment for it not to be used.If nothing changes, and soon I would suggest, there will be less tracks for them to use that equipment on, less opportunities to earn money and therefore not much chance of breaking even... Something has to give.... For me, semi pro Speedway is the only way the Sport in this country can survive and prosper.. It's ironic that in the 'Halcyon days' of the sport in Britain, when crowds were at the biggest, the majority of riders were semi pro. Riders happy earning "more in one night riding Speedway than I do in a month in the factory"... Now when crowds are pretty dire at most tracks we have more full time pros than ever. Even at NL level!!? The equation simply doesn't work.. Edited November 28, 2017 by mikebv 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted November 28, 2017 If nothing changes, and soon I would suggest, there will be less tracks for them to use that equipment on, less opportunities to earn money and therefore not much chance of breaking even... Something has to give.... For me, semi pro Speedway is the only way the Sport in this country can survive and prosper.. It's ironic that in the 'Halcyon days' of the sport in Britain, when crowds were at the biggest, the majority of riders were semi pro. Riders happy earning "more in one night riding Speedway than I do in a month in the factory"... Now when crowds are pretty dire at most tracks we have more full time pros than ever. Even at NL level!!? The equation simply doesn't work.. ...absolutely! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,619 Posted November 28, 2017 When a client of mine won the league he made a substantial loss. And that was at a time when there was a fixed pay scale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeff 60 Posted November 28, 2017 Kent made a profit again in 2017 as it has done every season so far, Len said in his end of season speech. I'm sure that is right but based on what I saw at Rye House it is achieved by an endless downward spiral of spending as little as possible on facilities, the track and riders. The spectator experience gets worse and worse each year until you are left with just the hardcore supporters who will put up with anything - but who have a growing sense that they are being taken for mugs. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,242 Posted November 28, 2017 I remember the late Bernard Crapper (Oxford co-Promoter) saying that he had reservations about point limits because economics would decree the make up of teams but of course given a free reign some promotions would spend money irrespective of whether they would re-cover that investment in pursuit of glory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites