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moomin man 76

Best Ever Finnish Rider

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Remember Kai Niemi scoring 19 points at the Abbey whilst riding for Eastbourne. Gordon Kennett scored 21 but Eastbourne still lost!

I remember that well Steve ,Kennett and Niemi scoring 40 points out of a total of 46 Steve Naylor 2, Sigvart Pedersen1, Richard Greer 1, Eric Dugard 1, Dave Kennett 1 were the other scorers.Gordon Kennett was a rider who i would of loved to see ride for the Robins at his peak but it was not to be.
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I remember that well Steve ,Kennett and Niemi scoring 40 points out of a total of 46 Steve Naylor 2, Sigvart Pedersen1, Richard Greer 1, Eric Dugard 1, Dave Kennett 1 were the other scorers.Gordon Kennett was a rider who i would of loved to see ride for the Robins at his peak but it was not to be.

Yes they were both awesome that day. Personally I feel Gordon should have moved to Swindon when White City closed rather than returning to Eastbourne.

 

Ari Kopenen (Kai's bother-in-law) was an enigma throughout his career. Recall him starting at Birmingham and finishing at Swindon if I remember. Could beat the best on his day but could be inconsistent. Veijo Touriniemi was simply awful when he signed for 'The Budgies' but he showed tremendous promise down at Eastbourne.

Edited by steve roberts

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Yes they were both awesome that day. Personally I feel Gordon should have moved to Swindon when White City closed rather than returning to Eastbourne.

 

Ari Kopenen (Kai's bother-in-law) was an enigma throughout his career. Recall him starting at Birmingham and finishing at Swindon if I remember. Could beat the best on his day but could be inconsistent. Veijo Touriniemi was simply awful when he signed for 'The Budgies' but he showed tremendous promise down at Eastbourne.

Koponen for me was in the Finn Jensen mould ( now he was an inigma) both so frustrating both had real talent Koponen did quite well for the Budgies but he could of been better than that.
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Best Finn? Finn Thomsen :)

 

Kai Niemi for me. In with a shout of the 85 world title up until his fifth ride.

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Who is the plonker who nominated Timo Lahti??? :-p

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Who is the plonker who nominated Timo Lahti??? :-p

Who? Me???

 

For the title question, cant really see how it can be anyone else than Niemi really. Most national titles (i think but wont check), best achievement in World finals and more than decent career in the leagues of his era.

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Guest

As I couldn't see an existing thread, I thought I would begin one, to allow anyone to discuss the merits of Finnish riders over the years.

Due consideration can be given to achievements not only in speedway but also long-track racing.

 

 

Best Finnish riders I have seen:

 

Antti Pajari

 

Timo Laine

 

I responded in context to the OP which sought a discussion on the merits of Finnish riders over the years rather than who was the best Finnish rider. My nominations were Antti Pahari - who I saw as a Coventry rider in 1959, and Timo Laine who I saw in Holland when he had successes in both the 1959 and 1962 'Golden Helmet' series. I emphasised this as being the best Finnish riders I had seen not nominate them as being THE BEST Finnish riders. I judged them as mentioned - as lower order Finish riders were also involved in both the Dutch 'Golden Helmet' series.

So far as memory serves me I do not recall ever watching any of the other Finish riders wo have been mentioned by other posters on this thread. After 1962, I saw very few speedway meetings until the Wimbledon revival between 2002--2005.

 

Actually, falcace, I have to say I am of an age where Antti Pajari and Timo Laine are not obscure to me. They were both good riders and I would probably count them in Finland's top five, though I agree Kai Niemi would be my choice as no.1.

 

 

I don't want to rub it in, but I am a few years younger than you, norbold! Having said that, the pair are not obscure to me either. In fact, as a kid, I remember my parents telling me about Antti Pajari!

 

Although both were better on the long-tracks, I think Timo Laine was the better of the two, Pajari being a little on the hairy side.

 

Steve

 

My view now is that the above comments by nor bold and chunky give some justification to my original opinion in regard to Laine and Pahari. It was refreshing to see that both had not jumped on the 'continuing BSF bandwagon' of making a comment by gustix look stupid. But then again, both IMO are more respected commentators on speedway THAN SOME who have attempted to discredit my view - maybe these Posters should have read my first comment more carefully.

BTW - after reading all Posts in this thread I tend to agree with norbold's opinion in regard to the top five Finnish riders.

Edited by Guest

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I think if we take long track achievements into account,then there really is only 1 rider who stands out and that is Joonas.Mikko might have been the most talented,but his reluctance to leave Finland must hinder his reputation imo

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When I started the thread, I hoped that the thread would allow all who wanted to contribute the opportunity to discuss the merits of Finnish riders over the years. From the comments posted so far, it is interesting to see the range of names mentioned, from the earlier Pajari and Laine era, to the likes of Teromaa, and Niemi, as well as the most recent period of Laukkanen and Kylmakorpi.

I was also intending the conversation to include consideration of both speedway and longtrack achievements, so it is good to see both aspects of the sport taken into consideration.

Due to age, I never had the opportunity to see the earliest generation of Finnish riders and Ila Teromaa only just fits into my radar with his season at Cradley Heath in my early childhood. So from those that I have had the pleasure to see Kai Niemi must rank highest on speedway, even if some would believe that he could have achieved more if fully committed, followed by Kaj Laukkanen and Joonas Kylmakorpi (who would clearly rank the highest on longtrack).

Perhaps I have been a little surprised to see that no one has referred to Kalevi Lahtinen, who must have been a decent rider to have scored 6pts in the Nordic-British Final at Sheffield in 1966 (on a track he had presumably never seen before).

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When I started the thread, I hoped that the thread would allow all who wanted to contribute the opportunity to discuss the merits of Finnish riders over the years. From the comments posted so far, it is interesting to see the range of names mentioned, from the earlier Pajari and Laine era, to the likes of Teromaa, and Niemi, as well as the most recent period of Laukkanen and Kylmakorpi.

I was also intending the conversation to include consideration of both speedway and longtrack achievements, so it is good to see both aspects of the sport taken into consideration.

Due to age, I never had the opportunity to see the earliest generation of Finnish riders and Ila Teromaa only just fits into my radar with his season at Cradley Heath in my early childhood. So from those that I have had the pleasure to see Kai Niemi must rank highest on speedway, even if some would believe that he could have achieved more if fully committed, followed by Kaj Laukkanen and Joonas Kylmakorpi (who would clearly rank the highest on longtrack).

Perhaps I have been a little surprised to see that no one has referred to Kalevi Lahtinen, who must have been a decent rider to have scored 6pts in the Nordic-British Final at Sheffield in 1966 (on a track he had presumably never seen before).

...I know that John Berry has been quoted as saying that British fans often never saw the best of Kai in that his exploits on the continent often excelled. I did raise this issue with John many years ago having not totally agreed with his assessment which I thought a tad unfair but in hindsight I now know where John was coming from.

Edited by steve roberts
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I responded in context to the OP which sought a discussion on the merits of Finnish riders over the years rather than who was the best Finnish rider. My nominations were Antti Pahari - who I saw as a Coventry rider in 1959, and Timo Laine who I saw in Holland when he had successes in both the 1959 and 1962 'Golden Helmet' series. I emphasised this as being the best Finnish riders I had seen not nominate them as being THE BEST Finnish riders. I judged them as mentioned - as lower order Finish riders were also involved in both the Dutch 'Golden Helmet' series.

So far as memory serves me I do not recall ever watching any of the other Finish riders wo have been mentioned by other posters on this thread. After 1962, I saw very few speedway meetings until the Wimbledon revival between 2002--2005.

 

 

 

 

My view now is that the above comments by nor bold and chunky give some justification to my original opinion in regard to Laine and Pahari. It was refreshing to see that both had not jumped on the 'continuing BSF bandwagon' of making a comment by gustix look stupid. But then again, both IMO are more respected commentators on speedway THAN SOME who have attempted to discredit my view - maybe these Posters would have read my first comment more carefully.

BTW - after reading all Posts in this thread I tend to agree with norbold's opinion in regard to the top five Finnish riders.

Sorry to have riled you. I just couldn't resist - unfortunately you do make a rod for your own back at times.

 

I simply cannot go beyond Kai Niemi on this, he's head and shoulders above the rest. Some might be able to make a spirited case for Ila Teromaa, but that's it. Furthermore, I cannot buy into long-track achievements being given equal consideration to speedway achievements. In whatever guise, the World Speedway Championship is the top priority for every participant, with the possible historical exception of a handful of West Germans. You cannot say - and never have been able to say - that the WLT is afforded the same prestige.

 

The WLT's peak years were in the mid 70s to mid 80s when Mauger, Michanek, Olsen, Collins, Lee, Gundersen all gave the event a real go (even then Niemi was a regular finallist amongst truly stiff competition). Why? Because there was money to be made by racing on the German long-track and grass-track scene on Sundays and being a top long-tracker meant big bucks - and the welcome embrace of a Bavarian bosom - let's not pretend otherwise :o

 

Once the doors opened to racing league speedway in Sweden and Poland, the WLT ceased to be a credible global competition featuring the world's top riders. Suddenly, Kelvin Tatum began winning it. Had he become a better rider? Nope, he was well past his peak, but the quality of competition had been seriously watered down. Long track is to Speedway what Rugby Sevens is to Rugby, an entertaining spectacle, but not the real deal.

 

Anyway, best Italian anyone? I'm going for Giuseppe Marzotto :wink:

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Sorry to have riled you. I just couldn't resist - unfortunately you do make a rod for your own back at times.

 

I simply cannot go beyond Kai Niemi on this, he's head and shoulders above the rest. Some might be able to make a spirited case for Ila Teromaa, but that's it. Furthermore, I cannot buy into long-track achievements being given equal consideration to speedway achievements. In whatever guise, the World Speedway Championship is the top priority for every participant, with the possible historical exception of a handful of West Germans. You cannot say - and never have been able to say - that the WLT is afforded the same prestige.

 

The WLT's peak years were in the mid 70s to mid 80s when Mauger, Michanek, Olsen, Collins, Lee, Gundersen all gave the event a real go (even then Niemi was a regular finallist amongst truly stiff competition). Why? Because there was money to be made by racing on the German long-track and grass-track scene on Sundays and being a top long-tracker meant big bucks - and the welcome embrace of a Bavarian bosom - let's not pretend otherwise :o

 

Once the doors opened to racing league speedway in Sweden and Poland, the WLT ceased to be a credible global competition featuring the world's top riders. Suddenly, Kelvin Tatum began winning it. Had he become a better rider? Nope, he was well past his peak, but the quality of competition had been seriously watered down. Long track is to Speedway what Rugby Sevens is to Rugby, an entertaining spectacle, but not the real deal.

 

Anyway, best Italian anyone? I'm going for Giuseppe Marzotto :wink:

I could have written that... :approve:

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I could have written that... :approve:

Not while you have a hole in yer ass :party::P

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The first year the Internationale was held (1961),qualifying rounds took place and some riders who were not riding for National League teams in Britain were invited over. I saw the round at New Cross and I remember that Timo Laine took part but only scored two points. I seem to recall that he was riding on borrowed equipment but I might be wrong.

Edited by Split

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If we compare them at least in the British League,as for the earlier riders we don't have Polish comparisons(not sure if they rode in Sweden?)

 

We have

 

Teromaa

 

1975..Leicester..34..132..154..41..5.91
1976..Leicester..34..144..266..17..7.86..1F
1977..Leicester..29..135..281..20..8.92
1978..Leicester..37..159..324..22..8.70..4F..1P
1979..Leicester..20..79..115..9..6.28
1979..Cradley..2..8..11..2..6.50
1980..Cradley..33..130..142..31..5.32..1P

 

world finalist 1978

Niemi

1976..White City..29..99..94..26..4.85
1977..White City..39..164..234..47..6.85
1978..White City..34..137..227.5..18..7.17
1979..Eastbourne..34..164..348..11..8.76..4F..1P
1980..Eastbourne..23..113..228..8..8.35..2F
1981..Eastbourne..1..5..6..1..5.60
1981..Birmingham..48..222..367..46..7.44..1P
1982..Wimbledon..42..185..329..43..8.04..2F..2P
1983..Wimbledon..44..181..320..27..7.67..1F..1P
1984..Ipswich..50..201..371..30..7.98..3F..1P
1985..Ipswich..39..161..201..46..6.14
1986..Swindon..23..98..203..4..8.45..1F
1986..Ipswich..16..67..130..4..8.00
1987..Ipswich..45..186..328..26..7.61
1988..Ipswich..38..180..278..31..6.87
1989..Coventry..30..105..104..19..4.69
1991..Long Eaton..12..48..73..7..6.67

 

world finalist 80,82,84,85

 

Kylmäkorpi

2001..Eastbourne..38..158..185..28..5.39..1P
2002..Ipswich..30..122..131..20..4.95
2003..Arena Essex..35..178..403..28..9.69..1F..2P
2003..Eastbourne..40..182..303..32..7.36..2F
2004..Eastbourne..30..127..187..36..7.02..1P
2005..Coventry..14..70..111..15..7.20..1F
2005..Peterborough..12..56..86..15..7.21
2006..Arena Essex..32..158..299..20..8.08..1P
2007..Lakeside..21..100..153..30..7.32
2008..Lakeside..27..123..181..42..7.25
2009..Lakeside..29..125..189..23..6.78..1P
2010..Eastbourne..34..165..286..26..7.56..1P
2011..Eastbourne..34..158..288..25..7.92..1F..2P
2012..Eastbourne..14..65..117..13..8.00
2013..Peterborough..12..52..91..8..7.62..1P
2014..Eastbourne..30..130..201..14..6.62..1P
2015..Coventry..24..101..171..17..7.45..1F
2016..Wolves..15..66..108..12..7.27

 

GP wildcard 4 times?

http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/1566/joonas-kylmakorpi

I would say Joonas is better without doubt than Teromaa and comparable if not better than Niemi given he rode in a tougher environment as I have shown a few times when you compare say the number of over 10+ averages in 1964 to the number in a larger league in 1965.The larger the league the easier it is to get a higher average.So Joonas has done very well,especially seeing as he often had an injury.So as far as I am concerned there is no way Niemi is head and shoulders above the rest and no way Teromaa is easily the next best.Not on these stats.I'd also say there is not much chance that Kai would have made 4 GP series

 

I was actually a bit surprised,because I thought Niemi would be a good bit better than Joonas at speedway,but to me it doesn't pan out like that

Edited by iris123

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