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Why 2 Leagues

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7 hours ago, INCOGNITO said:

£17-18 is too much in the present climate and considering other entertainments available and the standard of riders now present in Britain it's hard to see why it's over £15 and certainly not an attractive price to try and entice people into the sport. 

A friend end recently went to an Aston Villa match and paid £20 for a seat in a grandstand to watch 90 minutes of football then the following day had a day at the races for £10. Had he of taken his wife and kids to a speedway meeting he would have been looking at roughly £50 while a family ticket at the racing was £20.

Totally see where you are coming from but it is worth bearing in mind that neither of those sports rely on gate receipts as their primary source of income. While we would all like the price of speedway to be less I think it is fairly obvious what would happen if it was.

Speedway is stuck in an impossible place. Every sport that is trying to survive on gate receipts alone is struggling but the only option for speedway is TV. Sky tried but are no longer interested and they don't seem to be able to offer BT the product that they want. It doesn't help that little of the sky money seems to have been invested in making the stadiums look a bit better which doesn't exactly help sell the sport to TV either. Cutting costs to maintain  will work in the short term but sensible investment is the only way to survive long term.

Slightly off topic but £20 for football is dirt cheap too....tickets for my club (Leicester) usually cost £38-48 and were pretty similar to that in the Championship. Good on Villa for offering reasonable prices.

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5 hours ago, g13webb said:

But surely , this idea is directed to only a few clubs.      That is the reasons  why our sport is in the troubles it is,  too many promoters thinking about number one..       Any ideas has to be aimed at the sport as a whole,   one that can be sustainable  and be  beneficial to all parties.    

Most supporters are sensible people and can see the numbers don't add up, they know the days of top riders has gone.      others, just bury their heads, thinking that don't mean us, we're alright Jack !!      but I would rather we restructure now and continue to watch some speedway in the future,    than see more clubs fall by the wayside......

If that means only a single league then so be it.......

Sorry, have I missed something? Who are these clubs that have 'fallen by the wayside' due to financial issues?!

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38 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Sorry, have I missed something? Who are these clubs that have 'fallen by the wayside' due to financial issues?!

Eastbourne, Birmingham, Lakeside in the top division all had to drop out because they couldn't afford it...

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10 minutes ago, Najjer said:

Eastbourne, Birmingham, Lakeside in the top division all had to drop out because they couldn't afford it...

Lakeside's issues were to do with the tenancy of the stadium, not finances .

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58 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Lakeside's issues were to do with the tenancy of the stadium, not finances .

I believe they have been quoted in the past as saying they had lost thousands of pounds also?

You can then add in other clubs from the lower divisions like Newport & Plymouth who haven't been able to make it pay.

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1 hour ago, Najjer said:

I believe they have been quoted in the past as saying they had lost thousands of pounds also?

You can then add in other clubs from the lower divisions like Newport & Plymouth who haven't been able to make it pay.

Yes they did say that running Fridays was costing them money and the uncertainty of the lease being the final straw.

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3 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

Sorry, have I missed something? Who are these clubs that have 'fallen by the wayside' due to financial issues?!

It has been disclosed in the SS and on this forum that there were only 3 clubs who didn't run at a lost last year.   You don't have to be Einstein to appreciate the dire situation our sport is in.   When I posted my original comment ,  I would've  put you in the first grouping,  but following the above comment,  probably you come in the second grouping...  

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If the 'days of top riders are really gone' then why the need to introduce the 'only one 8 & over' rule??  Surely if clubs can't afford them then they wouldn't be signed?!  If only a few clubs can afford them then why not let them have a small 'Super League' (or Super Cup) with minimal fixtures?! If those fixtures were not supported in sufficient numbers or sponsorship then drop it!!

  All the other spare dates in the fixture list to be filled by the 'One PL/CL League' fixtures.

 

Its not the same as a PL club running a NL team with minimal attendance.

Surely that appeals to the majority of fans who have the choice of everything the sport can offer.

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44 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

If the 'days of top riders are really gone' then why the need to introduce the 'only one 8 & over' rule??  Surely if clubs can't afford them then they wouldn't be signed?!  If only a few clubs can afford them then why not let them have a small 'Super League' (or Super Cup) with minimal fixtures?! If those fixtures were not supported in sufficient numbers or sponsorship then drop it!!

  All the other spare dates in the fixture list to be filled by the 'One PL/CL League' fixtures.

 

Its not the same as a PL club running a NL team with minimal attendance.

Surely that appeals to the majority of fans who have the choice of everything the sport can offer.

There is no place in our sport for one or two strong teams,  they would do more damage than anything else and  remove those fans who have little of chance of success .   The only way to induce enthusiasm is to have competitive teams all with a chance of winning.  

Your idea of a small super league  (Super Cup)  when benefit only a few supporter, but would do immense collateral damage to our struggling existence .    If a team in the SC  used same squad in both  leagues they would be deemed way too strong for the remaining teams in the single league.  If they used a separate team then the lesser one would be of little interest in comparison.   therefore punters would forego the lesser option and support the top team only, making the remaining teams question their ideal of involvement.    

I support all forms of motor sports and would love the opportunity to see Rossi and Hamilton race every week in some form of a Super Cup.   But life isn't that straight forward.    These top riders wants rewards suiting of their expertise,   so we are left with no other option then to go to see them once a year when this country have their yearly GP's.   Probably we should look at speedway in the same light.....

I actually credited you with deep feelings for the sport,  but in truth,  all you are thinking of, is your personal enjoyment.

 

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My personal enjoyment as you put it would see me enjoy speedway at both 'Super Cup' and 'Championship League' level.

To explain further - The 'Super Cup' team could have say 2-3 'top liners'. The other 4-5 would be eligible for the Championship League fixtures, providing a decent number of fixtures for the majority of riders.  The 'top' (GP) riders are only seeking a handful of meetings at best.

With the right pricing differential and balance of team strengths in each competition, I don't see why it couldn't work?!

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Your vision of 2 -3 top liners in teams competing in the SC  would push expenses through the ceiling.   Lets imagine, each of these T L's  wanting  £3k a meeting,   That's £3K x 6 =  £18,000.00,    plus 8 other riders earning lets say  £12,000.00   totalling £30k just to cover the riders wages...   Add to that all the other expenses  needed  to put on a meeting and the figures become very unrealistic.  

Working on the bear essentials you would need attendances  of 3000 just to cover the costings,     Probably on a one of meeting it might be possible but not on a regular basis.  I cant see that happening.      Lets imagine SC goes ahead,   the attraction of the normal league would diminish  and crowds would suffer.    Probably to you that wouldn't matter because you would have your wish  watching those TL at a few tracks,   but the damage to the rest of the clubs would be immense.

You seem to have great difficultly  understanding our sport cannot compete with the foreign pricing structure employed by other countries...

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If you read my earlier posts correctly I am saying IF and only IF a handful of clubs can afford it?!  There are probably only 5 or 6 clubs in a strong enough financial position to consider it - not the whole sport.

As an example lets say 5 clubs in a Super League - that's 8 fixtures (4 Home/4 away) for each club using 2-3 top guys who wouldn't then be allowed (as they wouldn't want to be) to take part in the other championship-level league fixtures. The CL league could be run as one league or split into 2 regional leagues with play-offs etc using only the current lower-end Premiership riders and the current Championship riders - many of whom are the same guys anyway.

There are clearly many fans (some lapsed) that want to see the top guys as there are also many fans happy to still watch Championship League standard. Best of both worlds.

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Of course there are many fans who want to see the top guys,  me included,  but we don't provide the support needed to finance their inclusions.   Your example suggesting 5 clubs,   yet only  3 teams managed to run a viable existence last year and I have heard  2 of those were in the 2nd division.  

I have read all your posts, and understand your idea,   but to me we are 10yrs too late.     Something like this could have worked when the top guy rode here and a good TV  advertising and  promoting all that is good in the sport, but as with everything else we missed the boat.

We have very little left to offer these top riders,   We cannot afford them .    so we need to build a new product, staring from the bottom, and hope in years to come we will have that support to welcome back them top riders...... ....... ..   But on our terms....

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1 hour ago, g13webb said:

Of course there are many fans who want to see the top guys,  me included,  but we don't provide the support needed to finance their inclusions.   Your example suggesting 5 clubs,   yet only  3 teams managed to run a viable existence last year and I have heard  2 of those were in the 2nd division.  

I have read all your posts, and understand your idea,   but to me we are 10yrs too late.     Something like this could have worked when the top guy rode here and a good TV  advertising and  promoting all that is good in the sport, but as with everything else we missed the boat.

We have very little left to offer these top riders,   We cannot afford them .    so we need to build a new product, staring from the bottom, and hope in years to come we will have that support to welcome back them top riders...... ....... ..   But on our terms....

I am of the same opinion as yourself,  i have said for a few years we need to plan ahead clubs need to balance the books and forget about the Sky or BT money as that will stop eventually .We need to revamp our product for me have a competitive league with the entertainment factor the major aim .The top riders are long  gone now so lets hope the likes of Bewley, Jenkins, Flint,Kemp, Edwards,Thomas,Hume (ect) can be the next stars until they move on hopefully to a higher level.I have watched the NL product so speedway can still be a great night out without the stars so we need to plan ahead and have a vision to keep our sport going for the next twenty years plus.

Edited by Sidney the robin

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21 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

My personal enjoyment as you put it would see me enjoy speedway at both 'Super Cup' and 'Championship League' level.

To explain further - The 'Super Cup' team could have say 2-3 'top liners'. The other 4-5 would be eligible for the Championship League fixtures, providing a decent number of fixtures for the majority of riders.  The 'top' (GP) riders are only seeking a handful of meetings at best.

With the right pricing differential and balance of team strengths in each competition, I don't see why it couldn't work?!

Can you explain why so many clubs have tried to run an Elite League and a National League team and failed?

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