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Joe Jacobs

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In fairness Joe Jacobs was never going to be more than a 6pt 2nd Division rider at the very most!

 

But he's had less chances than many 2nd/3rd rate foriegners!

 

If he'd of been about in the 1970's Joe would of had more rides for teams! 

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6 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

In fairness Joe Jacobs was never going to be more than a 6pt 2nd Division rider at the very most!

 

But he's had less chances than many 2nd/3rd rate foriegners!

 

If he'd of been about in the 1970's Joe would of had more rides for teams! 

Why wasn't? Hes got a 5 point EL average a few season ago and that was after a season out of the sport. HE may have actually been a decent Premiership rider given the same opportunities that some frankly quite rubbish foreigners have had.

It's disgusting that the work permit regulations say that riders can only get a work permit if EU riders of the same level cannot do the job but here we have Mason Campton and Josh Pickering with jobs over here. It's a joke. You'd think after things were clamped down on a couple of season ago clubs would be a bit careful about ignoring the rules.

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1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

While I very much see your point here, you have to ask why 'foreign dross' is preferred to British riders.

 

1 hour ago, SCB said:

Because if they do happen to make it, at least they're British and we stand to gain. It must also be cheaper to employ a rider who lives 10-100 miles away that one who lives in another country. Being British they're also likely to hang around as long as they're employed, foreigners decide on a whim they're not riding in the UK until it suits them at a later date.

Not so sure you have answered the question as intended. 

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1 minute ago, Hodgy said:

 

Not so sure you have answered the question as intended. 

Because foreign dross bugger off home after a couple of years because it can't get work permits and it doesn't pay for them to be speedway riders. At least our own dross can choose to do it as a hobby and it more likely to still be here in a few years time.

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26 minutes ago, SCB said:

Because foreign dross bugger off home after a couple of years because it can't get work permits and it doesn't pay for them to be speedway riders. At least our own dross can choose to do it as a hobby and it more likely to still be here in a few years time.

Which again begs the question, therefore why do they often choose the more expensive, ‘foreign dross’ option? I think we are agreeing with you, just discussing the reasoning. 

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5 minutes ago, Hodgy said:

Which again begs the question, therefore why do they often choose the more expensive, ‘foreign dross’ option? I think we are agreeing with you, just discussing the reasoning. 

Because Workington paid a stupid amount of money for Mason Campton a number of years ago form Glasgow based on God only knows what. A promoter who had been given a load of cash after an accident and didn't know the value of money so just went mad it would seem. She now sticks with Mason Campton because having paid all that money, to throw him away now would mean losing that initial investment, she still probably hopes and prays every night Mason is going to come good so she can get back some of that alleged £12,000. If she drops Mason he'll go back to Aus and never be heard of again. Now if she was going to use Joe Jacobs she'd have to pay a loan fee, so on top of losing her investment in Campton, she's also paying to rent someone else riders. Scrap the asset system and she has zero investment in Campton beyond his 1 year contract and she can sign Jacobs at no cost.

In short, promoters love a foreign rider because they cost nothing to sign and if they turn out to be any good they get loan fees. Yet young Brits are often snapped up as assets by Premiership clubs and sent out on loan and cost the Championship teams money.

Scrap the asset system and I'm sure you'll see less promoters risking it with dodgy foreigners based on one or two meetings in Aus or individuals in September/October and more promoters willing to take a risk on young British riders. In scrapping the asset system I'd be willing to allow every club to have until January 1st to first call on a rider, if they offer him terms that match any other club then the poaching club has to pay the poached from club a fee or you would have a situation where the rich club would just sweep up all the good, young riders each closed season.

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it does make you wonder if its cheaper putting a foriegn rider up under the sponsership signing thingy than paying a signingon fee and maybe higher demands of some british riders that need high fees because theres no way they will score enough points to make enough on points money

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, foamfence said:

I see he has announced his retirement on Twitter. Assuming this isn't another Josh Bates style incident, then it's certainly a shame. There is something very wrong when our own riders can't get a place or can't double-up, yet quite a few untried or low grade overseas riders will be in the starting line-ups and plenty of overseas riders will be doubling-up. Priority should be with all home riders until they all have a place.

They aren't hungry enough. Don't blame the foreign riders for working harder and committing more fully to their cause. What you're proposing would be like saying British people should get employment priority over foreigners, regardless of their skill level or commitment. Foreign riders tend to achieve far more over their career span than British riders. Why would you pick consistently stagnant British riders, the majority of which never seem to really commit to the sport, their fitness or their ability and seem to float around the same low skill level for the majority of their career, when you can bring in foreign riders who more often that not leave the leave with a higher average than they came in on? Other than 1 or 2 British riders, I'd put my money on the foreign rider 9 times out of 10.

Edited by BurntFaceMan

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Most British riders can’t compete with foreigners in terms of equipment as sponsorship seems so hard to come by in the UK. 

 

Until a foreign rider turns up that that is and then his bike will be covered in British sponsors. 

 

Sigh

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7 hours ago, BurntFaceMan said:

They aren't hungry enough. Don't blame the foreign riders for working harder and committing more fully to their cause. What you're proposing would be like saying British people should get employment priority over foreigners, regardless of their skill level or commitment. Foreign riders tend to achieve far more over their career span than British riders. Why would you pick consistently stagnant British riders, the majority of which never seem to really commit to the sport, their fitness or their ability and seem to float around the same low skill level for the majority of their career, when you can bring in foreign riders who more often that not leave the leave with a higher average than they came in on? Other than 1 or 2 British riders, I'd put my money on the foreign rider 9 times out of 10.

Because those 'foreign riders' often come from countries that protect their own. It is supposed to be BRITISH speedway but according to you we should just exist as a training ground for foreign youngsters or those who just use us as an easy meal ticket. Fair enough, if that's what you want, it isn't what I want though and I would suspect that the majority of fans would support prioritising our own riders or at least having a set minimum number in each side.

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Posted (edited)

No doubt this brainwave that the CL promoters have had (as explained on Edinburgh thread) in getting new foreigners over here on lower averages has contributed to Jacobs packing in and Perks falling to get a spot. How many more Brits well suffer?

Edited by Bagpuss
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16 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

No doubt this brainwave that the CL promoters have had (as explained on Edinburgh thread) in getting new foreigners over here on lower averages has contributed to Jacobs packing in and Perks falling to get a spot. How many more Brits well suffer?

As far as I can see there are three Premiership clubs who have yet to declare more than one rider and two clubs still with spaces. Likewise there is one (Newcastle) Championship club who have only declared two riders and a further half a dozen spaces still to fill.

Therefore the claims that there are a dozen or so British riders who rode in the various leagues last season but have been frozen out for 2018 seems a tad premature.

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11 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

In fairness Joe Jacobs was never going to be more than a 6pt 2nd Division rider at the very most!

 

But he's had less chances than many 2nd/3rd rate foriegners!

 

If he'd of been about in the 1970's Joe would of had more rides for teams! 

By definition half the riders in the league will have averages of under six. Get rid of them all and you've just halved the number of riders.

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3 hours ago, MattK said:

As far as I can see there are three Premiership clubs who have yet to declare more than one rider and two clubs still with spaces. Likewise there is one (Newcastle) Championship club who have only declared two riders and a further half a dozen spaces still to fill.

Therefore the claims that there are a dozen or so British riders who rode in the various leagues last season but have been frozen out for 2018 seems a tad premature.

Most of the clubs you mention do actually know their line-ups but have various reasons for staggering the declaration, Redcar for instance have known their line-up for months but only declare a limited number of names at each of their fund raising nights, the theory being that it'll attract more fans to these events. When Ellis Perks declares that he hasn't got a club with whom to start the season, he does actually know that.

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Jacobs says in his press release that he needed to find a club in the Premiership and Championship to make speedway financially viable which obviously makes it more complicated. Interesting that he sees that he can only make speedway pay if he doubles up, he does mention that he has a job outside of the sport too - although after his omission in 2017 that would be a necessity.

 

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