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3 hours ago, Hamish McRaker said:

So do you think that a rider who is in the final of a world championship competition, should need assistance to pass someone in front and get into 3rd place? He had done it a few heats previously. And the rider he passed wasn't exactly a slouch, was he?

Yes i do actually... but to suggest Tai was “ effectively sending a message to Lambert and British speedway” is quite frankly pathetic

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10 minutes ago, norbold said:

I have always been a great admirer of Tai's on-track exploits and there is no doubt there is a strong case to say he is Britain's best-ever. Certainly in the top 4. And the way he rode during the SON certainly emphasises that and furthers his cause in that respect no end. So, like a lot of posters on here who have commented on the final race, I have no dislike of Tai nor any need to "attack" him. And I find it speaks volumes for the paucity of the argument of others when they have to resort to that line of reasoning when trying to answer the criticism that he should have done more to help Lambert in the final. It would be much better to give some sort of reasoned argument why they feel his tactics in the last race were correct rather than attacking everyone as "Tai haters".

To his credit, Philip has tried to do just that without ad hominem attacks, but, in my opinion, has failed miserably to make out any case at all why Tai should have just gone for the win and forget his partner. Yes, we know the chances of his shepherding Rob through past the world class Sayfutdinov were close to zero, but there was no alternative, given the rules. What difference did it make to the overall position that Tai storms off to win? There was only one chance of victory last night and that was for Rob not to come last. Other than last himself, it was irrelevant where Tai finished up. He could have stormed off and won in a new track record for all the difference it made. The only tactic he had was to hang back and try and help, however difficult that was.

Can someone please give a good reason why they think Tai was right to do what he did without dismissing people who disagree as "Tai haters"?

HERE goes, pure conjecture of course. After a couple of laps Tai believed that there was nothing he could to to help Lambert into third place. GB could only win if Emil or Artem fell or suffered an engine failure. If that happened GB would win whether Tai was second or first. His racing instincts kicked in and he went for the win on the last lap. At least it gave GB more points, a moral victory in some people's eyes.

I think it should be remembered that Russia had the second best individual rider over two days (Laguta) and the best number two .. which made them the best pair and were strong favourites to win a final in which, ridiculously I agree, not finishing last carried more weight than winning.

Hope that is sufficiently obtuse.

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Yes,that is probably it.He went off in the hope that Artem's natural racing instinct would get the better of him and he would lose control trying to catch Tai,thus handing the win to us. Best theory I have heard so far

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When Woffinden passed Laguta in the main event, Laguta lifted and almost got into trouble. I wonder whether Woffinden thought that if he pressed him in the final, something similar might occur and let Lambert through?

Enjoyed the tournament after a slow start. Perhaps a return to the WTC next year and then alternate with SON?

One change to make would be the team behind going into the grand final wins only if they get a heat advantage.

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Just now, iris123 said:

Yes,that is probably it.He went off in the hope that Artem's natural racing instinct would get the better of him and he would lose control trying to catch Tai,thus handing the win to us. Best theory I have heard so far

Beat me to it!

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9 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

HERE goes, pure conjecture of course. After a couple of laps Tai believed that there was nothing he could to to help Lambert into third place. GB could only win if Emil or Artem fell or suffered an engine failure. If that happened GB would win whether Tai was second or first. His racing instincts kicked in and he went for the win on the last lap. At least it gave GB more points, a moral victory in some people's eyes.

I think it should be remembered that Russia had the second best individual rider over two days (Laguta) and the best number two .. which made them the best pair and were strong favourites to win a final in which, ridiculously I agree, not finishing last carried more weight than winning.

Hope that is sufficiently obtuse.

Nice explanation... I still can't understand why you, or anybody else for that matter, thinks it was the right thing to do. And personally I think Tai was going for the win well before the last lap

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17 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Yes,that is probably it.He went off in the hope that Artem's natural racing instinct would get the better of him and he would lose control trying to catch Tai,thus handing the win to us. Best theory I have heard so far

THANK you...:neutral:

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19 hours ago, WalterPlinge said:

In our round, Sweden and GB qualified straight for the final.   Australia came through what you could call the  race-off heats for best losers.   There wasn't a Friday race-off meeting as in the SWC.  Friday and Saturday were both the final.

If you can’t answer sensibly, don’t bother. The two qualifying meetings were named race offs. 

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2 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

I WILL try one last time ... I believe that Emil is too good to allow a rider like Lambert to pass him no matter what Tai might have done. I am as entitled to my view as any. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong. 

What part of "if Woffinden had slowed to block Emil, Lambert might have had a chance to pass him" do you not understand?

It's not a case of Emil v Lambert (agree with you, Emil should win from a leading position), it's about Emil having to deal with Woffinden in front as well as Lambert who wasn't that far behind

 

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2 hours ago, TheReturn said:

FFS, why don't you people get it. Why is talk of Tai dropping back biased?   It's not biased to simply suggest that the they got the tactics wrong. 

You're right they made a tremendous achievement, but the record books will show the winners were Russia. who got their tactics right.  

So let me understand this correctly. Because someone won’t see your POV, they are wrong and you are right? Listen to yourself

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10 minutes ago, Dave the Mic said:

If you can’t answer sensibly, don’t bother. The two qualifying meetings were named race offs. 

Trying to twist it now eh?

As you well know, the Race-Offs we were talking about are a last chance to get to the final for teams who don't qualify direct for the final from their opening round.   They happened in the old SWC, but not in the new SON.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Dave the Mic said:

So let me understand this correctly. Because someone won’t see your POV, they are wrong and you are right? Listen to yourself

I don't think it's about who is right and who is wrong... What a lot of people are trying to understand is why somebody with such experience of the sport and has written about it for many years can't really explain why he thinks Tai shouldn't have held Emil up to help Robert get by to win a world title other than it was unlikely that Robert would have got by... The thing is that's why we all like sport because sometimes the unlikely happens

Edited by iainb
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8 hours ago, adonis said:

what you got with this silly format ,was an undeserving winner , pissed of supporters . and NO media interesr 

So after two days of racing Russia was only one point behind us. They then had to go into a stupid race of with Poland, who were 9 pts behind them.

Fortunately for us (the supporters) the best two teams met in the final. We all knew the format at the start of the week.

How many people would have thought GB would ride so superbly and actually go straight to the final? Not many i would hazard a guess.

So for you to say they were undeserving winners is rather harsh. I wonder what the majority on here would have said if GB did not make the final race.

I don't think there would have be so much complaining about the format.

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1 hour ago, norbold said:

I have always been a great admirer of Tai's on-track exploits and there is no doubt there is a strong case to say he is Britain's best-ever. Certainly in the top 4. And the way he rode during the SON certainly emphasises that and furthers his cause in that respect no end. So, like a lot of posters on here who have commented on the final race, I have no dislike of Tai nor any need to "attack" him. And I find it speaks volumes for the paucity of the argument of others when they have to resort to that line of reasoning when trying to answer the criticism that he should have done more to help Lambert in the final. It would be much better to give some sort of reasoned argument why they feel his tactics in the last race were correct rather than attacking everyone as "Tai haters".

To his credit, Philip has tried to do just that without ad hominem attacks, but, in my opinion, has failed miserably to make out any case at all why Tai should have just gone for the win and forget his partner. Yes, we know the chances of his shepherding Rob through past the world class Sayfutdinov were close to zero, but there was no alternative, given the rules. What difference did it make to the overall position that Tai storms off to win? There was only one chance of victory last night and that was for Rob not to come last. Other than last himself, it was irrelevant where Tai finished up. He could have stormed off and won in a new track record for all the difference it made. The only tactic he had was to hang back and try and help, however difficult that was.

Can someone please give a good reason why they think Tai was right to do what he did without dismissing people who disagree as "Tai haters"?

Spot on.

I'm quite an admirer of Tai, but I can see he was wrong to do what he did in the final.   The only thing to do was to hold back, try to help Lambert, try to mess Emil up.   It most likely wouldn't have worked, but it was the ONLY thing available to try.

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