World Championship Pairs

[OveFundinFan 4,139]

The way it was, with GB best under 21 rider at reserve, it gave GB the greatest flexability,  Tai was likely to be riding well (but there again who would have thought Majic, Dudek, Emil would not have been at their best), Cook may have found his form, but in case either of them faltered (and Cook did) then GB had a on form reserve.  The alternative suggested has been Tai and Lambert in the team with (under 21) Bewley at reserve.  Had Tai or lambert had  a poor day, or fell and injured (like Hukenberg) then would Dan be able to rise to the occasion? Lets face it, he is brilliant considering he not been riding too long, but at a senior world championship level - he would be very vulnerable.  So, its my opinion, the team selection was correct, and the way the reserve was used was also correct.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

HAVE heard from what I consider to be a very reliable source in Poland this morning that there was a concerted campaign in the media, on websites and from team manager Marek Cieslak for Polish fans to boycott the event in protest at what they perceived to be attempts by the FIM to stop Poland from winning by changing the format of the SWC to the SON.

THE irony is less money into the coffers of the Polish authorities and less support for their national team. Bit of an own goal.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

1 hour ago, Grand Central said:

 

 

But whether this was REALLY the reason why thousands upon thousands of individual Poles did not attend ... I somewhat doubt that will be the case.

It still remains the truth that ahead of the events the public was not won over by what seemed a very dubious competition . This was true in England, Germany AND Poland. 

In fact there was not a place on earth that could have got a good crowd for it especially at the prices being charged.

 

CORRECT but, of course, the more people talk it down the more indoctrinated the public become. Personally think the two-day event, while it has some merits, is expensive for the public especially if they come from far and wide and require overnight accommodation.

[TheReturn 1,724]

3 hours ago, nw42 said:

I don't see speedway in the same limited ways as many here. 

"Oh he's just being nasty"

No I'm not, I'm offering my own version of insight and trying to make people think, which is a petty thankless job in this forum.

There is why you're considered 'nasty' (your word not mine), because you frequently put yourself on a pedestal above everyone else on the forum.

For the record I don't consider you nasty.

 

3 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Ironically the best team racing over the four meetings came from  the British pair. Woffinden's rewards for probably his most impressive and mature display to date? 

Top scorer. Team top scorers. Winner of the grand final. No gold medal. Superb reward eh? 

No gold medal for one very simple reason, he didn't team ride in the grand final, the most important race of the night.  You're right that best team riding over all four meetings was Team GB, something Holder pointed out on Twitter. But the problem is when it really, really mattered Tai chased the win, didn't look to see how Robert was doing until that final bend. 

I still don't know though if Tai thought the team with the most points won, if that was the case then I fully understand his chasing the win.  But, otherwise, his tactics in that final race are exactly why he didn't get gold.  

[New Science 1,059]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:06 PM, New Science said:

Still think the Brits are favourites if they get to the final. Only Woffinden will have the nous to let Laguta / Doyle go and ride with his partner to avoid last place

Well I got that one wrong didn't I . Even Woffindens most dedicated fans will admit he made a mistake in the final. Over 2 days he has always looked after, cajoled and helped Robert Lambert out. Unfortunately in the final heat Lambert was on Emil's back wheel coming into the last lap and needed Tai to try and clamp or run Emil wide to give an opportunity for Robert to go round the outside of cut back up the inside. Robert was not adrift he just needed some help from his teammate to pass a world class rider. Surely Tai was aware that first place was irrelevant , it was only last place that really mattered.

Edited June 11, 2018 by New Science

[Big Al 708]

3 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

HAVE heard from what I consider to be a very reliable source in Poland this morning that there was a concerted campaign in the media, on websites and from team manager Marek Cieslak for Polish fans to boycott the event in protest at what they perceived to be attempts by the FIM to stop Poland from winning by changing the format of the SWC to the SON.

So perhaps the way forward is to resume SwC next year as a one-off event, held in Poland. The teams to be Poland A, Poland B, Poland C and Poland D. That should make them happy.

The rest can get on and have an improved version of SoN, not held in Poland, but they can send a team if they wish.

[iainb 4,991]

8 minutes ago, New Science said:

Even Woffindens most dedicated fans will admit he made a mistake in the final.

Apparently not though... I've had an opportunity to look at the final race again and can see that Woffy didn't look back for his partner once until the 4th bend of the 4th lap. We'll probably never know the reason why he did this as anybody that legitimately asks the question is tagged as a "keyboard warrior". Someone did ask Tai the question on Twitter, admittedly not in the best way and got shot down by everybody that worships the water Tai walks on

[nw42 2,048]

16 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

There is why you're considered 'nasty' (your word not mine), because you frequently put yourself on a pedestal above everyone else on the forum.

For the record I don't consider you nasty.

 

No gold medal for one very simple reason, he didn't team ride in the grand final, the most important race of the night.  You're right that best team riding over all four meetings was Team GB, something Holder pointed out on Twitter. But the problem is when it really, really mattered Tai chased the win, didn't look to see how Robert was doing until that final bend. 

I still don't know though if Tai thought the team with the most points won, if that was the case then I fully understand his chasing the win.  But, otherwise, his tactics in that final race are exactly why he didn't get gold.  

I think you may have mistakenly placed part of Mr High & Mighty's post and attributed it to me, be a good chap and correct things if you don't mind.

[waytogo28 2,054]

1 hour ago, Grand Central said:

Armando and Torben should go

I do agree with that part. Armando and Torben should go. We will never know how much the SON lost.

[INCOGNITO 357]

If they want to do it over 42 heats why not do it on the same day. Start one at 12 and the second at 7pm and during the break get the track done and ready for the evening as the base holds up well and the main work would be getting the starting gates level.

 

Poland is really the only place now to hold big finals and Belle Vue is fine for a qualifier but unless Germany can provide better than Tetrow and grass banks it should be given to countries that can provide the stadiums like Sweden or Vojens, Denmark. 

 

Points should be be carried forward to the race offs with bigger points on offer in the final, maybe 5-3-2-0 giving a team chance to gain six points with a 8-2 while the leading country can just go for the race win as GB did to secure their advantage. In this scenario, Russia would have needed a 7-3 to win the title.

 

Also take away the age restriction for reserves in a pairs event. In the SWC it's fine to have a under 21 but too much pressure or importance is put on reserves in this format and really only Poland, Britain and Russia had creditable reserves of the standard to be in a World Final.

[THE DEAN MACHINE 4,736]

Anyway it was a good competition and I’m just happy that there was happiness in every team and everyone was getting along nicely 

[New Science 1,059]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:58 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

CANNOT believe people are criticising Tai after that performance

It seems you as Managing Editor of the Speedway Star has an agenda. Virtually everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet accept you. I won't insult your intelligence Phil but if you can't see and can't admit as good as Tai Woffinden was in that tournament that he made a mistake in the Final then words escape me. Can see from your posts that you want Rosco removed but  continuing with this  "Woffinden couldn't help Lambert in the final" narrative isn't doing your reputation as a speedway journalist much cop 

[moomin man 76 171]

The competition has a future, but there clearly need to be tweaks made to the format.

The qualifiers allow more nations to compete, but they need to be held in venues that do not resemble gate and go tracks in a field (Teterow), or on a midweek evening with inevitable travel complications (Belle Vue). Under 21 riders have to be mandatory, or not at all, rather than optional. If they are to be mandatory, the format has to be altered so that Under 21 riders have to compete. There is no point in having an optional Under 21 rider, when most nominated Under 21 riders will only ride in the event of injury to a senior rider. As it is the format leaves almost all Under 21 riders seriously out of pocket, as no travel expenses are paid and the prize money on offer is poor.

If there is a necessity to stage a two event final to meet television obligations, at least stage the event on the same day. Run one event in the morning/early afternoon, re-grade the track and run the second event in the evening. Sell separate or dual admission tickets.

The biggest tweak needs to be made to the end of the competition. To run forty two heats to eliminate four teams is excessive. Points won in the qualification phase should also be rewarded in the elimination race, as well as the final. A pair who achieved less points in the qualification phase should not be allowed to win the elimination race, or the final simply by finishing in second and third place. To an outsider (and most speedway fans), it is ridiculous that a lower scoring team over the course of the first forty two heats can win the competition by finishing in second and third place in the final. At least make the lower scoring team who qualify for the final win a heat advantage to emerge victorious.

Unfortunately, most of these flaws were pointed out by speedway fans a long time before race off 1 was held. The attendances for each event was poor, as the public voted with their feet. Either the creators of the competition, Armando Castagna and Torben Olsen are not interested in the opinions of fans, or they are simply deluded in what they think speedway fans will put up with. If either of them had any dignity they should resign for creating such an ill-conceived competition.

Edited June 11, 2018 by moomin man 76

[Grand Central 2,654]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

CORRECT but, of course, the more people talk it down the more indoctrinated the public become. 

While that could have some validity I don't think that the good people of Manchester or Germany would have given much credence to the ramblings of random folk like me on platforms like this to influence them.

And this was well balanced by people with most readers ... Phil Chard, Paul Burbidge et al who never gave anything other than a positive spin to the SON wherever possible.

No I think they were very capable of deciding for themselves that what was being offered in the qualifiers was a bit of a Turkey. And at first glance the finals had so many things against them that many would have seen the wisdom in not gambling their money until they had seen just how it worked out.

They may have a different view now we have seen a great final..

But if anyone was feeling Poland were being picked on before  ... Then only getting third place will seem like their paranoia was vindicated. So who knows how they will respond now.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Grand Central

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

6 minutes ago, New Science said:

It seems you as Managing Editor of the Speedway Star has an agenda. Virtually everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet accept you. I won't insult your intelligence Phil but if you can't see and can't admit as good as Tai Woffinden was in that tournament that he made a mistake in the Final then words escape me. Can see from your posts that you want Rosco removed but  continuing with this  "Woffinden couldn't help Lambert in the final" narrative isn't doing your reputation as a speedway journalist much cop 

FIRSTLY, as I have said many, many times, I do not contribute here as Managing Editor of Speedway Star but as a speedway fan. Have no agenda. Don't think I have mentioned Rosco. And my opinion (which is all jt is) remains the same regarding the final. In fact, has been endorsed this morning  by some who were there, including a rider whose option I value highly. I have no problem with you seeing it differently. You should simply do the same.