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4 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

I'd class myself as one of Tai's dedicated fans and I certainly asked the question. You'd have to be a few brain cells short to not do so.

Seen various excuses trotted out as to why they didn't try and not one of them has any semblance of reason. It was the wrong tactic. Simply no argument.

However, I won't use it a stick to beat him with nor will I let it detract from the superb performance he put in over the week or the great strides GB have already taken.

100% Correct. 

Tai was brilliant over the 2 days and without him we'd probably have been battling Germany for last place.

Who knows why he chased Laguta, but he did!!  Maybe the final got to him and he just wanted to win. Must be a bit alien letting another rider zoom off when it's in your nature to race. 

While I'm on here, regarding the tapes warning rule.  Personally I'd let them all move at the start and unless they touch the tapes let it go, flyers are a great gate IMO.  However, if we are to have warnings in this and the GP I'd say make it a clean slate when we get to the semis. If they move in either the semi or final then they get a new warning.  The semi final on Saturday was very poor and a real downer for the meeting, although correct decision under the current rule.

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14 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

The ONLY reason we were in the position we were was solely due to the amazing efforts of Tai.  To then lay blame at his door for the final is ludicrous.  We don't know the reasons why he chased for the win but I trust he did the right thing,  based on the fact that if was him alone that ensured we were in that position in the first place. 

To call him out in one race is frankly ludicrous. 

Big like Brum... Tai did exactly the right thing in the final, you cannot bugger about trying to team ride in those circumtances. Other than that his contrabution was exceptional.

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2 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

Big like Brum... Tai did exactly the right thing in the final, you cannot bugger about trying to team ride in those circumtances. Other than that his contrabution was exceptional.

Oh god,just when things were getting sensible along comes another one!!

The competition was specifically thought out for 'team riding in those circumstances' otherwise the rule for the final would be different

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Posted (edited)

Well I've heard it ALL now.

The Final is the one race where you CANNOT BUGGER ABOUT TRYING TO TEAM RIDE.

Has Roscoe joined the forum in disguise ?

Edited by Grand Central
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3 minutes ago, Starman2006 said:

Big like Brum... Tai did exactly the right thing in the final, you cannot bugger about trying to team ride in those circumtances. Other than that his contrabution was exceptional.

I'm afraid any argument for the 'doing the right thing' has now well and truly been blown out of the water. Once Starman is on your side, you haven't a leg to stand on :)

 

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31 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

OMG why cant some people get this?  Take the 'Tai tinted glasses' off. How can you say 'I trust he did the right thing', we lost!!!!!!

Most of us who have suggested Tai got it wrong in the final have all said how amazingly well he's done in the other races. Tai deserves so much praise for what he got right in the 3 meetings, but that does not mean he can't be criticised for getting the final wrong, that criticism doesn't detract from his amazing achievements to get us there.

BWitcher perfectly describes it above...

 

 

My ‘Tai tinted glasses’ have been off for years thanks but have to credit where credit is due. We have no idea what the instructions for the final were. It’s all assumption what he should have done. IMHO it would have made GB more vulnerable waiting for Emil. Maybe Tai was hoping Robert might have picked Emil off (which he nearly did) whilst he went after Artem?? There was nobody better at team riding throughout the week than Tai. The Russians didn’t exactly team ride once on a 3 all either.

24 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Oh god,just when things were getting sensible along comes another one!!

The competition was specifically thought out for 'team riding in those circumstances' otherwise the rule for the final would be different

Team riding which only Woffy seemed capable of doing, did Russia start team riding once Tai got to the front?? If we expect GB to do it in the final then shouldn’t we expect the same from Russia?? 

Nothing better than watching team riding but it’s a lost art form, as evidenced throughout the competition with only Woffy giving a perfect demonstration.

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2 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

.

Team riding which only Woffy seemed capable of doing,

Nothing better than watching team riding but it’s a lost art form, as evidenced throughout the competition with only Woffy giving a perfect demonstration.

See,you are getting there....just another step and you will be with us

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4 minutes ago, adonis said:

 when you consider they are reluctant to pay properly .it's amazing that all these world calls riders were prepared to ride 21 races let alone 42 . BSI /IMG  are taking the piss   they charge the clubs massive fees to run the events and then skimp on paying expenses . win win for racketeers .lose lose for the riders and federations . 

It looks good on your CV when approaching potential sponsors, also there is some status and satisfaction in being in big events.

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19 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

 It’s all assumption what he should have done. IMHO it would have made GB more vulnerable waiting for Emil. Maybe Tai was hoping Robert might have picked Emil off (which he nearly did) whilst he went after Artem?? There was nobody better at team riding throughout the week than Tai. The Russians didn’t exactly team ride once on a 3 all either.

Team riding which only Woffy seemed capable of doing, did Russia start team riding once Tai got to the front?? If we expect GB to do it in the final then shouldn’t we expect the same from Russia?? 

Nothing better than watching team riding but it’s a lost art form, as evidenced throughout the competition with only Woffy giving a perfect demonstration.

It's all assumption claims Stevebrum! The rules are quite clearly explained how the final is won, but nope.. it's all assumption! Staggering.

It really does get worse and worse. 
 

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36 minutes ago, iris123 said:

See,you are getting there....just another step and you will be with us

This seems to be the pattern now.. remind us of how great the team riding was in races where it didn't actually matter to a great degree... but then tell us it wasn't important when it was of absolute importance!

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Posted (edited)

Liked the pairs format in general, needs slight alteration. My suggestion would be 2 day final, 7 teams day 1 , top 5 teams to meet each other twice on the 2nd day. The 5 teams ride against each other once on the 2nd day which is 10 heats, then to have the draw made for the 2nd set of 10 heats with the draw being manipulated so that 3rd races 4th in ht 19 and 1st to race 2nd in ht 20, Team with most pts wins. In the event of a tie, aggregate scores over the 3 times teams have met in the final. If still level who had the most race wins.

 

Big Tai fan but was surprised like most that he went for the win and not to try and help Lambert out.

Edited by iand

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5 hours ago, iainb said:

Apparently not though... I've had an opportunity to look at the final race again and can see that Woffy didn't look back for his partner once until the 4th bend of the 4th lap. We'll probably never know the reason why he did this as anybody that legitimately asks the question is tagged as a "keyboard warrior". Someone did ask Tai the question on Twitter, admittedly not in the best way and got shot down by everybody that worships the water Tai walks on

Thank you, I had the impression that Woffinden was not especially looking for Lambert during the finale, but wasn't sure but you've kind of confirmed it.

I also have the impression that during day two, Lambert had to fend for himself more than was the case on day one. Once again though, I'd need to re-view the heats.

If that is indeed the case, I can only presume there was a change to team strategy on day two in that respect - whatever the reasons for it were...

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Posted (edited)

Part of the reason some people are having difficulty is that they don't really understand what team riding is. And it's many variations.

People - including the commentators - seem locked into just the one man inside/one man outside formation-riding to prevent a rider getting past as being all it is.

The greater subtleties of slowing a race, moving someone out, trapping them on the line (some of which Tai did brilliantly earlier on) seem lost on some folk.

The specific difference about THIS final above all other races in the meeting was we don't need wins or points ... JUST MAKE EMIL COME LAST and WE WIN.

Plan A for the race was do that. NOTHING ELSE.

i know my morals may be lacking but IMHO if that had not been achieved by the end of lap three 'slam on the brakes' and throw everything at him to do it, no matter what, you have nothing to lose by that stage. An exclusion would not matter by then. 

 

Edited by Grand Central
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4 hours ago, iainb said:

We'll probably never know the reason why he did this as anybody that legitimately asks the question is tagged as a "keyboard warrior".

It's a perfectly adequate question to put to the team manager, so I assume one of the speedway journalists or broadcaster have already, or may this evening at the British Final. 

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35 minutes ago, TheReturn said:

It's a perfectly adequate question to put to the team manager, so I assume one of the speedway journalists or broadcaster have already, or may this evening at the British Final. 

Somebody should take a leaf out the the journalists book that asked Max Verstappen "Why do you keep crashing?" at this weeks F1GP, he may not choose to answer but it's the question most people are asking.

I look forward to the serious journalistic questions being asked tonight and in the Speedway Star. Can you imagine the scrutiny the Poles would come under if it was them. It also makes a bit of a mockery of all of the effort that is now going into the GB Speedway Team if at the end of the day a rider is not even going to try and win, be that the riders decision deliberately or due to lack of information or the managers decision

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