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11 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Still waiting for an explanation of why it makes perfect sense to NOT try to win a gold medal. 

You advocate it. Phillip Rising advocates it. Seems Team GB advocated it.

Champions League Final.. Liverpool trail Milan 3-0.. co managers Phil Rising and Sommelier.. "Shut up shop lads, let's not concede anymore. Silver is great! We can't take risks and chase the game at this level, not in a final, the standard is far too high"

Superbowl 51.. New England trail Atlanta by 25pts.. head coach Phil Rising...  you get the idea.

Now apply it to Speedway of Nations Pairs Final.. Sayfutidnov gets into 3rd on bend 2.. less then 15% into the race and you're advocating throwing in the white towel.

I think to try and explain to you would be a task to far, Philip as tried to no avail, so I have no chance!!!

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, sommelier said:

EVERYTHING Philip Rising is quoting makes perfect sense to me, & lets be honest he's been around Speedway a long long time, a person I always look up to & always will!!!

Doesn't make him 'always' right.

Edited by TheReturn

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We obviously had a plan but it didn't survive the first two bends, after which the Russians were in front. Bit difficult to come up with plan B in the middle of a speedway race.

Out of interest, how many times in the whole SoN did a rider in front successfully slow a race down to let his partner get through?

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18 minutes ago, sommelier said:

I think to try and explain to you would be a task to far, Philip as tried to no avail, so I have no chance!!!

You can't explain, that's the whole point. Every explanation attempted only strengthens the argument against.

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12 minutes ago, Chadster said:

We obviously had a plan but it didn't survive the first two bends, after which the Russians were in front. Bit difficult to come up with plan B in the middle of a speedway race.

Out of interest, how many times in the whole SoN did a rider in front successfully slow a race down to let his partner get through?

How many times was it absolutely essential to do so?

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14 minutes ago, Chadster said:

We obviously had a plan but it didn't survive the first two bends, after which the Russians were in front. Bit difficult to come up with plan B in the middle of a speedway race.

Then someone needs a kick up the arse for not having a plan B prior to the race!  

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8 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

How many times was it absolutely essential to do so?

Are you a Hancock fan.    He has spoken out about slowing a race down since Manzares was injured.    Any views on that

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Posted (edited)

It's actually a funny fact of the whole competition ... I don't think there was much evidence that many of the teams really understood the difference in tactics required for the race/off and finals that made them VERY different from all the other races.

There were only 6 races where setting out to get one of your opponents into last place was the ONLY effective 'plan'.
And in three of them one side ended being reduced to one man so it became a little irrelevant.

In the other three race ALL of them ended 3-3.

It was obvious that Australia, Denmark and Russia had 'got' it by either 'going' for a second/third 3-3, or at least being very happy to settle for it when it happened.
And in all three races that really came about BECAUSE the lead rider of the 'other' side singlemindedly (and pointlessly) went for the win and Zagar, Millik and Tai never make any attempt to assist their partner at all.
We all know that hardly any team other than GB had actually done any team riding all week AND their partner in each case could be regarded as being 'difficult to help' so that comes as no surprise in the qualifiers. But we know Lambert WAS able to make use of Tai's help which was very different.
BUT the reality is that NONE of those three winners ever even gave it a thought. And none of them had it as a 'tactic' that they had even thought of. They still seem to think that there was something 'helpful' about going for the win !
Including Tai.

 

 

 

Edited by Grand Central
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4 minutes ago, Mark said:

Are you a Hancock fan.    He has spoken out about slowing a race down since Manzares was injured.    Any views on that

Yes, he's a whinger.

Any views on Tai doing it multiple times in the qualifying races? Didn't hear the outcry about it being dangerous?

 

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13 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

It's actually a funny fact of the whole competition ... I don't think there was much evidence that many of the teams really understood the difference in tactics required for the race/off and finals that made them VERY different from all the other races.

There were only 6 races where setting out to get one of your opponents into last place was the ONLY effective 'plan'.
And in three of them one side ended being reduced to one man so it became a little irrelevant.

In the other three race ALL of them ended 3-3.

It was obvious that Australia, Denmark and Russia had 'got' it by either 'going' for a second/third 3-3, or at least being very happy to settle for it when it happened.
And in all three races that really came about BECAUSE the lead rider of the 'other' side singlemindedly (and pointlessly) went for the win and Zagar, Millik and Tai never make any attempt to assist their partner at all.
We all know that hardly any team other than GB had actually done any team riding all week AND their partner in each case could be regarded as being 'difficult to help' so that comes as no surprise in the qualifiers. But we know Lambert WAS able to make use of Tai's help which was very different.
BUT the reality is that NONE of those three winners ever even gave it a thought. And none of them had it as a 'tactic' that they had even thought of. They still seem to think that there was something 'helpful' about going for the win !
Including Tai.

 

 

 

Maybe just maybe  they were thinking of Poland on the following Sunday where they would be earning fortunes which they couldn’t do if they were injured trying to play games and risk ending up in the fence.

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19 hours ago, Rob B said:

BSI really pricing everything too high, also the semi final at Belle Vue was too high, and the Danish GP is ridiculously high and looks like it could only be half full.

True

 

Last year for the World Games Best Pairs at Wroclaw they had a sell-out crowd simply because the organisers did not charge unreasonably high entrance fees. 

 

And it is the same reason (money) that they can not find tracks outside of Poland willing to pay for the right to host the SWC.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Maybe just maybe  they were thinking of Poland on the following Sunday where they would be earning fortunes which they couldn’t do if they were injured trying to play games and risk ending up in the fence.

What no-one has pointed out is the final of the 2017 SGB Championship Pairs at Sheffield.

Ben Barker and Charles Wright held a 7-2 for most of the race, but Wright made a mistake on the final lap and Kyle Howarth and Lasse Bjerre came though. Barker slowed entering the third bend to try to assist his team-mate, and Sheffield pair also slowed as a result, and then Charles Wright smashed into Kyle Howarth in a frightening crash.  Wright and Howarth both sustained injuries, with Wright ruled out for the rest of the season.

Edited by lucifer sam

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9 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Maybe just maybe  they were thinking of Poland on the following Sunday where they would be earning fortunes which they couldn’t do if they were injured trying to play games and risk ending up in the fence.

I think there is some sense in this.

27 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Yes, he's a whinger.

Any views on Tai doing it multiple times in the qualifying races? Didn't hear the outcry about it being dangerous?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

What no-one has pointed out is the final of the 2017 SGB Championship Pairs at Sheffield.

Ben Barker and Charles Wright held a 7-2 for most of the race, but Wright made a mistake on the final lap and Kyle Howarth and Lasse Bjerre came though. Barker slowed entering the third bend to try to assist his team-mate, and Sheffield pair also slowed as a result, and then Charles Wright smashed into Kyle Howarth in a frightening crash.  Wright and Howarth both sustained injuries, with Wright ruled out for the rest of the season.

Similar to Manzares.    Slowing is very dangerous when it goes wrong and riders are on the limit

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Mark said:

Similar to Manzares.    Slowing is very dangerous when it goes wrong and riders are on the limit

Lots of moves are very dangerous if they go wrong.The riders know that,but still put people in the fence etc.....they even admit they have done it on purpose on occasions,but it still doesn't stop them.In the heat of the moment and desperation to win riders will chance almost anything.....sometimes

Edited by iris123

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