World Championship Pairs

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

2 hours ago, Grachan said:

The two day World final was an embsrassment, although having it in Holland probably didn't help.

Last night's meeting was not good. It was supposed to be a pairs event, but where was the team riding? Whatever happened to thr great USA team racing style? Hancock racing off into the distance while his partner got passed by all and sundry cost USA a place in the final.

Did anyone really care about the World Pairs in the past? It was always the poor relation of the World Team Cup and the individual championship, and still is.

If they are having the World Cup every 2 years, with this as a filler, then fine. But if this is replacing it then it is a disastrous decision.

You got this exactly right. Thank you. 

[Aces51 2,778]

I'm sure the racing will be better on Tuesday. Yes there are riders who are much below the standard of others but there are enough quality riders to ensure some and maybe, a lot, of entertainment and excitement.

Like others I thought the racing was dire last night and the format was over complicated. However, I've seen some dire GP's and meetings in all sorts of domestic and international competitions so, not a good start but I am prepared to wait until after the final before forming an opinion on this competition.

For what it's worth I like Nigel and Kelvin's commentary. Yes they get things wrong sometimes but don't we all. 

[Daniel Smith 5,645]

I've said it before, the scoring system in pairs meetings should be 4-2-1-0.

Race winning should take precedence over a 2nd & 3rd. If they want to use bonus point for count back then these bonus points should be for 1st & 2nd only.

[screm 8,050]

Rules need looked at as IMO no team should be competing if they cant come with a full team, that team including an Under-21 reserve.

It just looks amateurish. 

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

3 hours ago, iainb said:

you never made a mistake at work?

Yes, but then I wasn't being paid significant amounts of money to share my work with a large international audience. And yes, I have done the job myself, albeit not at such a level as live to an international market. I do know what the job entails however and what is required. Declaring heat 21 as irrelevant and insisting both teams were eliminated wasn't just a minor slip-up. It could and most definitely should have been avoided. It just needs a little bit of the budget to be used on hiring someone to monitor the scores and correct the commentary team over talkback when they are factually incorrect or have missed a vital point. 

Add in dreadful camerawork and I'd be asking some very pointed questions of the producer. It didn't hep that it was a dreadful meeting on a dreadful track. I'm sure the rest will be better but you only really get one chance to make a first impression. This was not the SWC. To be honest I've enjoyed Rye House v Crayford challenge matches far more ;-) (and they were far more meaningful, well to us and the budgies...) 

[iainb 4,962]

4 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, but then I wasn't being paid significant amounts of money to share my work with a large international audience. And yes, I have done the job myself, albeit not at such a level as live to an international market. I do know what the job entails however and what is required. Declaring heat 21 as irrelevant and insisting both teams were eliminated wasn't just a minor slip-up. It could and most definitely should have been avoided. It just needs a little bit of the budget to be used on hiring someone to monitor the scores and correct the commentary team over talkback when they are factually incorrect or have missed a vital point. 

Add in dreadful camerawork and I'd be asking some very pointed questions of the producer. It didn't hep that it was a dreadful meeting on a dreadful track. I'm sure the rest will be better but you only really get one chance to make a first impression. This was not the SWC. To be honest I've enjoyed Rye House v Crayford challenge matches far more ;-) (and they were far more meaningful, well to us and the budgies...) 

So they made a mistake... just like you did when you typed "help" as "hep"

It's if these mistakes keep happening  on a regular basis that people would be justified in complaining.

Unfortunately there's no spell check or edit button on live TV

Edited June 3, 2018 by iainb

[iris123 20,935]

27 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

 

No it wasn't a good start. When have we ever had a classic on the German tracks? It's tempting to ask when we've ever had a simply memorable (for the right reasons) meeting.To them and other nations it's a Sunday afternoon amateur sport and they simply can't step up to the level required. That's been obvious since Norden.

Before the first major meeting at Teterow a few years back I posted here that it was a big mistake because the track imo is terrible.Regardless of it being situated in a field in a failry small town,the racing I have witnessed has been poor to dangerous.I stopped going there after a few meetings,but one or two of my friends from the area told me it had improved since then.So I went to the U21 team qualifier that was in danger of being called off because riders were falling or getting in trouble on one bend.A meeting after that was called off because riders thought the track too dangerous,yet they were awarded big meetings!!! Obviously just because they are willing to pay the money....

The thing Is just down the road at Güstrow they have imo a great track and a better stadium.Only a week or so ago they got 9,000 fans in to watch an individual meeting of no real consequence!!!!.So I as you might imagine disagree with your opinion 

 

As an aside to this,i do wonder if Teterow are getting themselves into financial trouble hosting such meetings?This season for the first time they only held their Bergring grasstrack meeting on the 1 day instead of the usual 2,stating the costs were too high etc and I think the falling crowds....And a decade or so ago it was normally the case that the grasstrack weekend funded the club for the season.I'd hate to see the club get into real trouble,but if I remember correctly the Parchim club got into financial trouble with their ambitious plans to host the Longtrack world final that turned out to be a big flop.Yesterdays attendance couldn't have helped Teterow much 

Edited June 3, 2018 by iris123

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

16 minutes ago, iainb said:

So they made a mistake... just like you did when you typed "help" as "hep"

It's if these mistakes keep happening  on a regular basis that people would be justified in complaining

I have made mistakes. There are degrees of mistakes however. Comparing a typo to a huge commentary gaffe is ridiculous. I have commentated on nearly two hundred speedway meetings in the past, for video and satellite TV in its early days. Included in this were world finals. I also hosted my own studio-based speedway news programme. I think I might have an idea of what the job entails and requires, don't you? 

As most will know I rarely attack Nigel and Kelvin's work. This is not because I am looking after 'mates'. I can't recall ever meeting the former and I haven't spoken to Kelvin since interviewing him when he was the new reserve at Wimbledon. In any case I was scarcely a member of the speedway 'establishment' when I tried to help the sport out. 

I know that commentators do not have the freedom of choice or action that the public assume they have. They are answerable to producers and directors, literally through the meeting. Commentating while your boss is screaming in your ear isn't the easiest of jobs. 

Yes mistakes happen, but this one was sloppy and perhaps a product of overconfidence that needs to be learned from.

I agree with those who acknowledge Nigel and Kelvin's knowledge, love and respect for the sport. Nigel's constant inclusion of mentions of events taking place in Britain in the coming week clearly goes over the heads of many people's heads but it's clearly an attempt to use commentary to sell the sport directly to the casual viewer. "Hey if you like this you can go and watch it yourself". The question, as ever is one of balance. At which point does repetition earn diminishing returns?

It's been mentioned that they are under constant pressure to cater for the casual viewer who may have joined the coverage part way. The question is how far should the balance tip away from those who know the sport, know what is good and don't need the hype in favour of those whose attention needs to be grabbed and massaged. That's not the commentators' role. They do not run the programme and I'd suggest that BSI and BT at least review whether excellent content is being damaged by the volume and hype. Unlike other sports like football I do suspect that the majority of viewers are 'casuals'. 

Yes there are mistakes. Yes they are acceptable. When they're serious enough and avoidable enough it's complacent and arrogant just to shrug shoulders and carry on defiantly. 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by RobMcCaffery

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

8 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Before the first major meeting at Teterow a few years back I posted here that it was a big mistake because the track imo is terrible.Regardless of it being situated in a field in a failry small town,the racing I have witnessed has been poor to dangerous.I stopped going there after a few meetings,but one or two of my friends from the area told me it had improved since then.So I went to the U21 team qualifier that was in danger of being called off because riders were falling or getting in trouble on one bend.A meeting after that was called off because riders thought the track too dangerous,yet they were awarded big meetings!!! Obviously just because they are willing to pay the money....

The thing Is just down the road at Güstrow they have imo a great track and a better stadium.Only a week or so ago they got 9,000 fans in to watch an individual meeting of no real consequence!!!!.So I as you might imagine disagree with your opinion 

 

As an aside to this,i do wonder if Teterow are getting themselves into financial trouble hosting such meetings?This season for the first time they only held their Bergring grasstrack meeting on the 1 day instead of the usual 2,stating the costs were too high etc and I think the falling crowds....And a decade or so ago it was normally the case that the grasstrack weekend funded the club for the season.I'd hate to see the club get into real trouble,but if I remember correctly the Parchim club got into financial trouble with their ambitious plans to host the Longtrack world final that turned out to be a big flop.Yesterdays attendance couldn't have helped Teterow much 

Thank you. At timers like this your inside knowledge of the German scene is vital. 

[iainb 4,962]

3 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I have made mistakes. There are degrees of mistakes however. Comparing a typo to a huge commentary gaffe is ridiculous.

We all make mistakes and as long as we learn from them that's good, to say huge commentary gaffe is just as ridiculous, I only pointed out your typo to illustrate how easy it is to make a mistake, nobody died, it's probably an indication of the interest in the speedway that was on offer that there's all this hysteria of a small gaffe. He made a mistake and acknowledged it, he'll make more mistakes as will we all, for people to suggest he should lose his job over it is just sick (and not good sick)

[tyler42 150]

4 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

 

The worst possible scenario, of course, is that after nearly 100 races we get to the final, Joe Bloggs is excluded for a tapes offence, and the two opposition guys ride round waving to the crowd knowing they cannot be beaten.What an anti-climax that would be.

 

Surely whoever dreamed this up needs to be shot. They get rid of the dreaded joker, but come up with something more pathetic. Two day final that comes down to one race and as you say, if the team with the most points over the two days have a mishap in the final, the other team ride round waving to the crowd and take gold. 

[iainb 4,962]

2 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Surely whoever dreamed this up needs to be shot. They get rid of the dreaded joker, but come up with something more pathetic. Two day final that comes down to one race and as you say, if the team with the most points over the two days have a mishap in the final, the other team ride round waving to the crowd and take gold. 

perhaps execution is a bit strong... Does anybody know what happens if there is an injury on day 1?

[stevebrum 6,820]

1 hour ago, paulboy said:

I agree, their commentary around heat 21 summed up speedway in a nutshell

As previously stated If you can suggest a better option please let BT know. 

It’s a new system that even the knowledgable are struggling to explain or understand.

if you can quote me a post that understood the rules better than Saturday then feel free. 

Yes, they are supposed to know and they messed up the important latter stages. In your perfect world nobody would make mistakes I guess.

[waytogo28 2,054]

The attendance was poor yesterday. Possibly around 2,000? What does anyone else think? The two day Final must sell out if they are only selling two day tickets. But if you live some way away you might not bother to go to the 1st day I suppose. Watch it on TV, as I do and greatly enjoy it as I do for the GPs, as I can't get there and can't afford to if I could. Not that there was much to enjoy yesterday.

[waytogo28 2,054]

3 minutes ago, iainb said:

perhaps execution is a bit strong... Does anybody know what happens if there is an injury on day 1?

You must be allowed a replacement as that is in the rules, isn't it? Does only Phil Morris know? Of course you would need a doctors certificate I imagine.