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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, A ORLOV said:

That will not make much difference to all the time wasting.

When I was a teenager and allowed to attend meetings for first time by myself I had to be on 10pm bus home or no chance of going the following week. 10 min run to bus station from Monmore but I missed it quite a few times.

Most meetings I attend at Wolverhampton are done with between 9:00 and 9:15 these days which is fine.

Christ how boring it would be if riders just came round, all settled down immediately at the start and away they went.

If you're not happy with a rider pulling back from the start, fiddling with goggles, etc, let him know.. create a bit of atmosphere. 

 

 

Edited by BWitcher
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8 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

When I was a teenager and allowed to attend meetings for first time by myself I had to be on 10pm bus home or no chance of going the following week. 10 min run to bus station from Monmore but I missed it quite a few times.

Most meetings I attend at Wolverhampton are done with between 9:00 and 9:15 these days which is fine.

Christ how boring it would be if riders just came round, all settled down immediately at the start and away they went.

If you're not happy with a rider pulling back from the start, fiddling with goggles, etc, let him know.. create a bit of atmosphere. 

 

 

The meeting finishing at 9 - 9.15 is fine especially when the weather is like it is now, but some meetings go on and on due to pointless time wasting which is what is putting more fans off from continuing to attend.  Last season we had so many call backs to the start it became rediculous and must have looked awful on tv, especially when the ref did not put the 2 min on as soon as the recall was signalled.  Most watching on tv would have been put off going, and many recorded it and ff through all the delays. 

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3 hours ago, A ORLOV said:

Having just read the published 2018 rules I see that there seems to be no effort to stop time wasting on a tape infringement and restart.  There is no rule stopping the pit gates being opened and mechanics adjusting the bike or topping up the fuel rather than getting the riders straight back to the start for the rerun.  This lack of speeding up the meeting will turn more fans away from speedway and not give a good impression on tv to any new possible fan.  

Not exactly what you're talking about but the time interval between heats has been reduced from 5 minutes to 4 which includes the 2 minute time allowance.

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6 minutes ago, Alan_Jones said:

Not exactly what you're talking about but the time interval between heats has been reduced from 5 minutes to 4 which includes the 2 minute time allowance.

That will help a little bit, but one of the biggest time wasters is allowing the pit gate to be opened after a restart and mechanics coming out to the bikes.  If it was stopped the restart could get away before the two mins was up.  The ref should have the power to turn off the clock when all riders are at the gate.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, A ORLOV said:

That will help a little bit, but one of the biggest time wasters is allowing the pit gate to be opened after a restart and mechanics coming out to the bikes.  If it was stopped the restart could get away before the two mins was up.  The ref should have the power to turn off the clock when all riders are at the gate.

...I personally used to dislike having Frank Ebdon in charge of a meeting as the race having just finished he immediately used to engage the 'two minute warning' for the next heat. It never gave one the chance to digest and discuss the race but I guess that there is a fine line between moving things along and blatant time wasting.

Edited by steve roberts

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57 minutes ago, A ORLOV said:

The meeting finishing at 9 - 9.15 is fine especially when the weather is like it is now, but some meetings go on and on due to pointless time wasting which is what is putting more fans off from continuing to attend.  Last season we had so many call backs to the start it became rediculous and must have looked awful on tv, especially when the ref did not put the 2 min on as soon as the recall was signalled.  Most watching on tv would have been put off going, and many recorded it and ff through all the delays. 

Re-starts and a bit of tension at the start line are two very different things.

I agree on the re-starts issue, far too many of them and very often good gates are being penalised.

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3 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Re-starts and a bit of tension at the start line are two very different things.

I agree on the re-starts issue, far too many of them and very often good gates are being penalised.

I seem to recall that in one meeting out of 15 races we had about 7 to 9 restarts, absolutely rediculous, and it was cold as well.

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20 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Exactly.

Except that was a long time ago, so the point stands, the racing isn't the cause. It's the gradual decline in crowds due to lost fans due to natural wastage not being replaced by new ones. As the crowd dwindles, the atmosphere dwindles, the same race seems less exciting.. any newcomer is greeted by a less good atmosphere and doesn't get hooked into it.

 

I agree there is not much wrong with the product its the same and as good now as its always been.Its the atmosphere that has now gone.The best meeting I have been to in years was a meeting my team lost it was the 2016 play off final 2nd leg against Wolves at belle vue.The atmosphere was electric the crowd were up on their feet chanting for the whole meeting.Like it or not but it got the crowed involved there was interaction between the crowd with on the night bad boy Woffinden. There was on track altercations between riders which got the crowd involved.Riders of both teams showed a lot of passion when they won or got a race advantage, the whole meeting seemed to cause the crowed to react and join in verbally, the whole meeting was awesome.

 Hard I know with the crowds we now get is to try and create some of the old atmosphere and get the crowed more involved. Bring back the bad boys who wind up the home fans,get the home riders to interact with the crowd more after race wins get them to cheer more etc.Get the announcer/mascot to try and wind up the crowd more get them to cheer even encourage them to boo it all gets the crowed to interact and causes more of an atmosphere.It has to be worth a try its got to be far better than just filling in your programme between races and getting bored waiting for the next race to begin.

So for me the only way the sport can grow is if there is a way to get the crowed more involved and create a better atmosphere,fans will have a better night out if they join in more and any newbies or retuning fans are more likely to return and the larger the crowd the better atmosphere you will get.

 

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Every track needs its own Massif :lol:

Up the Witches!!

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23 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Exactly.

Except that was a long time ago, so the point stands, the racing isn't the cause. It's the gradual decline in crowds due to lost fans due to natural wastage not being replaced by new ones. As the crowd dwindles, the atmosphere dwindles, the same race seems less exciting.. any newcomer is greeted by a less good atmosphere and doesn't get hooked into it.

 

I think your asleep at the wheel. Fortunately as we both have watch our speedway at the same venue for many years we are able to make accurate comparisons. Do you honestly, I mean genuinely  think the racing at Monmore is a patch on what it was 10 years ago. Nothing to do with less fans being there, its simply  just not as good, that's why many are knocking it on the head. Its not " natural wastage "  either, its people giving up on the sport for what they see as a poor product or not value for money,  natural wastage is people who don't attend through circumstance not those who feel they have had enough of the sport. If all those who had left the sport in the last 10 years returned to the terraces the sport would not have the problems it has today, Wolves have been in the play off final the last 2 years and are currently operating on their lowest crowds I can remember. 

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5 hours ago, Vince said:

Id disagree with that 100%, in my opinion the riding standard today is the highest I have seen since I first watched in the 60's. Modern day riders do things on the bike that their forebears couldn't have imagined doing, some of that is down to bikes and tracks but they still have to be the ones doing it.

Not only the that but the commitment of the majority riders to each race is higher as well in my opinion.

Hiya Vince when I said the standard of riders has gone down I meant over here, I totally agree with you that the top riders are the highest it's ever been. How they do what they do on the rocket ships of today il never know. Sorry not to have been clearer

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48 minutes ago, New Science said:

I think your asleep at the wheel. Fortunately as we both have watch our speedway at the same venue for many years we are able to make accurate comparisons. Do you honestly, I mean genuinely  think the racing at Monmore is a patch on what it was 10 years ago. Nothing to do with less fans being there, its simply  just not as good, that's why many are knocking it on the head. Its not " natural wastage "  either, its people giving up on the sport for what they see as a poor product or not value for money,  natural wastage is people who don't attend through circumstance not those who feel they have had enough of the sport. If all those who had left the sport in the last 10 years returned to the terraces the sport would not have the problems it has today, Wolves have been in the play off final the last 2 years and are currently operating on their lowest crowds I can remember. 

Have to agree I spent just over 10 years watching Wolves before we came back and the racing most weeks was awesome. I remember getting home and babbling on about it to anyone who would listen to me. I haven't been to watch the Wolves as much in the last 8 years but when I have it hasn't been as good. Agree I'm not a regular so could have just been unlucky with the meetings I chose to go to

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1 hour ago, New Science said:

I think your asleep at the wheel. Fortunately as we both have watch our speedway at the same venue for many years we are able to make accurate comparisons. Do you honestly, I mean genuinely  think the racing at Monmore is a patch on what it was 10 years ago. Nothing to do with less fans being there, its simply  just not as good, that's why many are knocking it on the head. Its not " natural wastage "  either, its people giving up on the sport for what they see as a poor product or not value for money,  natural wastage is people who don't attend through circumstance not those who feel they have had enough of the sport. If all those who had left the sport in the last 10 years returned to the terraces the sport would not have the problems it has today, Wolves have been in the play off final the last 2 years and are currently operating on their lowest crowds I can remember. 

I go back further than that to the 90's when I remember the racing as being the best ever.

However.. I've got every single match from that era on dvd. When I put the highlights dvd in I think wow, it was so much better back then.. but then I put in full matches and riders are quite literally on the back straight when the winner crosses the line. The racing in many races was more strung out than ever.

Natural wastage occurs in every sport, they don't just stop going due to circumstances, they stop because they aren't enjoying it as much as they used to. I have three uncles, all were long term season ticket holders at the Molineux. Two no longer go, they still follow Wolves, can still afford to go, they just stopped and that's it. There are many others slightly older than me that I know are the same. There are clearly many thousands given the number of youngsters who attend matches, they must be replacing someone as crowds tend to hover around the same amount.

I'll agree to an extent with Wolverhampton but then I think much of that is us having been spoilt with some of the riders we were watching. The Karlssons in their prime, Lindgren etc. The silencers you often mention have had some impact but the issues were there long before that.

You say if all those who have been lost in the last ten years came back, but ten years ago the conversations were exactly the same, dwindling crowds, nowhere near as many as ten years prior, but the racing was still good at that point you say.. so your argument doesn't totally add up.

You're right about the crowds at Wolverhampton. Being away for much of the year and then coming back it's so apparent the bigger gaps on the terraces, the utter lack of atmosphere. Like you, it's the social side that makes the night enjoyable. The overall experience isn't as enjoyable as it was though, which is very sad. Now if I'm feeling like that, someone who is hungry for live action that's a very bad sign.

Throw in the constant dumbing down of the league which has driven more fans away or make them feel it's not worth it anymore.

There are lots of factors that combine , but the overwhelming one is, as crowds continue to fall, more and more will find it less enjoyable regardless of the racing., I think on that we can agree.

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Atmosphere makes so much difference to the overall experience

Thats why some of us in the back straight stand at Foxhall got together and made a very conscious effort to make some noise - horns, bells, whistles, megaphones allsorts.

It has grown and spread to other parts of the stadium and has made a noticeable difference

It has also helped to reconnect the riders with the fans which itself has built on that difference to create something approaching a real buzz which had been missing for sometime

 

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Conclusion:  It's (almost) always been crap therefore we don't need to improve it at all.

You couldn't make it up....................................................................

 

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