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10 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

On the other hand how much lower would they have gone if not propped up by TV coverage? You can never know. The money earnt by the sport should have enabled it to invest in itself and thus attract new customers.

There were few sports that utterly wasted the opportunity and money but somehow ours managed to. 

No, the move for years now in sports TV has been away from highlights to live, full-match coverage. Why should be go in the other direction just because we can't run matches efficiently?

There is a real world out there and it seems it's not just the BSPA who are unaware. Study the sports TV schedules and see for yourselves how few sports have highlights shows only instead of full coverage. There's not many, and for a very good reason - people want live, full matches, as proved by Sky for nearly thirty years now. 

Three main sports have highlights in addition to as well as live coverage that i know of.

BBC has football highlights each week, the same with rugby and often the F1 coverage is highlights only.

If the tv companies will not pay a decent amount for live meetings and some clubs feel the payment does not cover their loss,  as seems to have been a possible issue this year, then coverage will be limited so a highlights prog is next best, the alternative is no coverage at all.

People might want live matches but if the clubs decide against it then so be it, again highlights are better than nothing.   

 

Edited by A ORLOV
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22 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

BT aren't the ones with the problem re the Premier League deal - that's firmly Sky's problem. 

The lesson has been learnt and the next deal will be less on both sides. BT's resources dwarf Sky's so I wouldn't be worried about their finances. They are leaving Sky to make the desperate deals and are clearly looking to ensure that future deals in all sports are financially justifiable. It looks like they've tested the BSPA this year with their initial offer. 

It is frightening that members of the BSPA still can't see the value of a TV deal. Most other minority sports would be biting BT's hand off.

But then there is the real world, the sporting world and then British Speedway's......

 

 

BT Sport spent far too much on their last TV deal and i think that is common knowledge.

I'm not worried about either of their finances but simply pointing out that putting on speedway which is a tiny outlay compared to the other sports they show it brings in subscribers they otherwise wouldn't have and that helps pay for their football contract.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

BT Sport spent far too much on their last TV deal and i think that is common knowledge.

I'm not worried about either of their finances but simply pointing out that putting on speedway which is a tiny outlay compared to the other sports they show it brings in subscribers they otherwise wouldn't have and that helps pay for their football contract.

 

 

 

It’s apparent that putting on Speedway incurs some quite decent production costs running into thousands for each televised match but that must on the whole affect every live production by tv companies to cover sport.

i would be interested to know what it costs to put a programme on but it must be well into 5 figures.

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1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said:

It’s apparent that putting on Speedway incurs some quite decent production costs running into thousands for each televised match but that must on the whole affect every live production by tv companies to cover sport.

i would be interested to know what it costs to put a programme on but it must be well into 5 figures.

Definately 5 figures, i was told how much it cost the Sky production to put it on, i cant remember now but it was a small fortune, even for one transmitting unit..

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3 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

Definately 5 figures, i was told how much it cost the Sky production to put it on, i cant remember now but it was a small fortune, even for one transmitting unit..

Wasn't it over £100k for a five camera production? Hence rain offs were a costly nightmare and everything was then done to put the meeting on whether conditions were 100% rideable (never mind raceable)..?

Edited by mikebv

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19 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Wasn't it over £100k for a five camera production? Hence rain offs were a costly nightmare and everything was then done to put the meeting on whether conditions were 100% rideable (never mind raceable) or not..?

Well yes that did seem to be the case rain off's were costly for everyone, and yes i think that sort of figure was banded about. The thing is Speedway does not get the exposure the same as football does, as you know, and to my mind that has always been the sports downfall as you know, speedway used to hit the national papers in the 70's 80's, for the right reasons, good exposure, our local papers coverage is very good. Also the problem nowadays compared to the 60's 70's people have so much more choice of things to do, im not just talking about watching the junk on the TV week in week out, and costs for fans does come into it, thats why imo you have to dangle a carrot to get fans in for the TV meetings. although i dont think the money BT offer clubs is as much as sky did, so even if fans do not turn up the club still gets the money which should, break them at least even, but the aim for promotions should be to lure fans in. Of course the chap who said on here we should have a highlights programme, and really plug it, he's right.
Speedway has to move with the times, you cannot stand still, if a football club does not improve there squad year after year the likelyhood being they will struggle or get religated..Speedway should do the same.. improve its presentation and keep the fans happy.

Edited by Starman2006

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4 hours ago, Starman2006 said:

Well yes that did seem to be the case rain off's were costly for everyone, and yes i think that sort of figure was banded about. The thing is Speedway does not get the exposure the same as football does, as you know, and to my mind that has always been the sports downfall as you know, speedway used to hit the national papers in the 70's 80's, for the right reasons, good exposure, our local papers coverage is very good. Also the problem nowadays compared to the 60's 70's people have so much more choice of things to do, im not just talking about watching the junk on the TV week in week out, and costs for fans does come into it, thats why imo you have to dangle a carrot to get fans in for the TV meetings. although i dont think the money BT offer clubs is as much as sky did, so even if fans do not turn up the club still gets the money which should, break them at least even, but the aim for promotions should be to lure fans in. Of course the chap who said on here we should have a highlights programme, and really plug it, he's right.
Speedway has to move with the times, you cannot stand still, if a football club does not improve there squad year after year the likelyhood being they will struggle or get religated..Speedway should do the same.. improve its presentation and keep the fans happy.

I don't think BT offered anything in terms of money, but were given the opportunity by the BSPA, and funded by the SKY money which was paid up in lieu of the paid up contract. It had been hoped that BT were pleased with what they saw, and had identified where they could perform better this year. There was talk on here about  production costs being paid and small money for the rights to continue, but it would seem we need to wait and see if the BSPA can draw all promotions in to accept a decent deal. 

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20 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

I don't think BT offered anything in terms of money, but were given the opportunity by the BSPA, and funded by the SKY money which was paid up in lieu of the paid up contract. It had been hoped that BT were pleased with what they saw, and had identified where they could perform better this year. There was talk on here about  production costs being paid and small money for the rights to continue, but it would seem we need to wait and see if the BSPA can draw all promotions in to accept a decent deal. 

I think the problem is that it isn't a "decent" deal.

 

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20 hours ago, A ORLOV said:

Three main sports have highlights in addition to as well as live coverage that i know of.

BBC has football highlights each week, the same with rugby and often the F1 coverage is highlights only.

If the tv companies will not pay a decent amount for live meetings and some clubs feel the payment does not cover their loss,  as seems to have been a possible issue this year, then coverage will be limited so a highlights prog is next best, the alternative is no coverage at all.

People might want live matches but if the clubs decide against it then so be it, again highlights are better than nothing.   

 

Yes they do have highlights IN ADDITION to live coverage. I specifically stated that few sports ONLY have highlights packages.

I'm rather familiar with Match of The Day......

It would help if people read what I say rather than assume. 

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2 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes they do have highlights IN ADDITION to live coverage. I specifically stated that few sports ONLY have highlights packages.

I'm rather familiar with Match of The Day......

It would help if people read what I say rather than assume. 

I did read it and just pointed out the highlight progs on tv.

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18 hours ago, Hot Shoe said:

BT Sport spent far too much on their last TV deal and i think that is common knowledge.

I'm not worried about either of their finances but simply pointing out that putting on speedway which is a tiny outlay compared to the other sports they show it brings in subscribers they otherwise wouldn't have and that helps pay for their football contract.

 

 

 

Yes, but not on the scale of Sky and they have cut back on the 2019 contract, reducing payments and cutting down from 42 matches to 32. It is common knowledge that until recently BT's financial resources have dwarfed those of Sky, although the Disney deal will shift the balance.

BT could afford to pay over the odds. Sky couldn't and speedway was dumped. 

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2 hours ago, Tsunami said:

I don't think BT offered anything in terms of money, but were given the opportunity by the BSPA, and funded by the SKY money which was paid up in lieu of the paid up contract. It had been hoped that BT were pleased with what they saw, and had identified where they could perform better this year. There was talk on here about  production costs being paid and small money for the rights to continue, but it would seem we need to wait and see if the BSPA can draw all promotions in to accept a decent deal. 

And thats what should happen, I believe Skys cost for screening were a lot higher than BT's, But it would be in all the clubs interst to accept a deal that at least gives clubs something.

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Every Sky Speedway meeting cost over 35k a meeting and that does not include Sky staffing costs in Osterley or the actual airtime and satellite uplink capacity which Sky have long term lease via BT media & Broadcast. 

Obviously I am unable to go into every cost but can give you a few examples over £1000 a meeting for catering,£2500 for power,£1100 for scaffolding, £200+ for security, Temporary Internet circuits £1400 Most experienced cameraman on excess of £500 a day plus travel.

BT did a very good job in 2017 in cutting the OB and production costs but in my opinion that did show on screen with less cameras and older OB equipment. Some of the savings were Made like on catering, security and less staffing, cranes 

In 2018 I I understand that the production budget has been increased so there will be some on screen benefits which is good.

i read with great interest in the thoughts and comments about a highlight package and magazine style programme in the week.

This very nearly happened in 2014 on Sky sports in addition to the live coverage it was all costed out but the BSPA were not happy about this and it never got off the ground as some clubs feared it would affect attendances and some put pressure on local video companies to not provide footage for this and also into live productions.

It still shocks me that Speedway is not able to attract a TV programme sponsor as there are a number of high profile companies involved now with clubs but did hear that at one point that Go Speed were asking for unrealistic prices whether they would take less now who knows. Even if they only got 25k for these rights better than nothing 

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13 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

It’s apparent that putting on Speedway incurs some quite decent production costs running into thousands for each televised match but that must on the whole affect every live production by tv companies to cover sport.

i would be interested to know what it costs to put a programme on but it must be well into 5 figures.

Yes but the overall cost including what the contacts costs is tiny compared to football and that was my point. Showing minority sports is a cheap way for Sky and BT Sports to sign up subscribers that they normally wouldn't get.

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12 hours ago, flagrag said:

Every Sky Speedway meeting cost over 35k a meeting and that does not include Sky staffing costs in Osterley or the actual airtime and satellite uplink capacity which Sky have long term lease via BT media & Broadcast. 

Obviously I am unable to go into every cost but can give you a few examples over £1000 a meeting for catering,£2500 for power,£1100 for scaffolding, £200+ for security, Temporary Internet circuits £1400 Most experienced cameraman on excess of £500 a day plus travel.

BT did a very good job in 2017 in cutting the OB and production costs but in my opinion that did show on screen with less cameras and older OB equipment. Some of the savings were Made like on catering, security and less staffing, cranes 

In 2018 I I understand that the production budget has been increased so there will be some on screen benefits which is good.

i read with great interest in the thoughts and comments about a highlight package and magazine style programme in the week.

This very nearly happened in 2014 on Sky sports in addition to the live coverage it was all costed out but the BSPA were not happy about this and it never got off the ground as some clubs feared it would affect attendances and some put pressure on local video companies to not provide footage for this and also into live productions.

It still shocks me that Speedway is not able to attract a TV programme sponsor as there are a number of high profile companies involved now with clubs but did hear that at one point that Go Speed were asking for unrealistic prices whether they would take less now who knows. Even if they only got 25k for these rights better than nothing 

THANKS as ever for the info...

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