tellboy 3,660 Posted April 20, 2018 6 hours ago, DunRobin said: To keep their average down, It can help with team changes if they are needed. Their is no incentive in heat 15, once the match is won at home. Like someone else said, if the away's team's point was taken off the home teams points, bringing down to 2 points, then you might see a different attitude. Thought riders were paid by points scored.So the incentive to win the race is extra £££s.So by keeping there averages down but still winning matches how could you work out this would help with team changes.You need 46 points to win a match,team building average is 42.5 Most riders try in heat 15 regardless,well apart from maybe Batchelor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,821 Posted April 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Yup. And the home team supporters won't give a stuff if they do. Some will, I might dependant on the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted April 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, tellboy said: Thought riders were paid by points scored.So the incentive to win the race is extra £££s.So by keeping there averages down but still winning matches how could you work out this would help with team changes.You need 46 points to win a match,team building average is 42.5 Most riders try in heat 15 regardless,well apart from maybe Batchelor. Riders can still be paid even if they do not score points and if the bspa continue to have a low team limit certain riders might want to stay in the team for the following year rather than ride themselves out of a job.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) I am in no doubt Batchelor would have given his all to beat them horrible people from East Anglia in heat 15. . It would have made little difference on what he was being paid, or that the points had already been decided, cause he hates Kings Lynn with a vengeance, - and that is what makes the result even sweeter. Only a fool would dismiss the Robins at home, so to push them pretty close I thought we performed impressively. Looking at the scores of last night, we have to be confident of contesting well with all the teams we have to meet on our travels.... That for the predicted Wooden Spoonist, is bound to put egg on quite a few faces.... Edited April 20, 2018 by g13webb 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EnglishRoundabout 1,752 Posted April 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, g13webb said: I am in no doubt Batchelor would have given his all to beat them horrible people from East Anglia in heat 15. . It would have made little difference on what he was being paid, or that the points had already been decided, cause he hates Kings Lynn with a vengeance, - and that is what makes the result even sweeter. Only a fool would dismiss the Robins at home, so to push them pretty close I thought we performed impressively. Looking at the scores of last night, we have to be confident of contesting well with all the teams we have to meet on our travels.... That for the predicted Wooden Spoonist, is bound to put egg on quite a few faces.... Batch hates everyone doesn’t he? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tellboy 3,660 Posted April 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, EnglishRoundabout said: Batch hates everyone doesn’t he? No,no,no.Don't forget he loves himself. 30 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: Riders can still be paid even if they do not score points and if the bspa continue to have a low team limit certain riders might want to stay in the team for the following year rather than ride themselves out of a job.. Maybe you think your riders are not trying in heat 15,as a paying punter i would be very upset if i thought this was happening at Lynn.Good to see ht 15 at Lynn when Lynn had all the points that R.Lambert wasn't just going through the motions 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A ORLOV 8,628 Posted April 20, 2018 Just now, tellboy said: No,no,no.Don't forget he loves himself. Maybe you think your riders are not trying in heat 15,as a paying punter i would be very upset if i thought this was happening at Lynn.Good to see ht 15 at Lynn when Lynn had all the points that R.Lambert wasn't just going through the motions Would not worry me if it meant that the following year a good riders average was under 8 ( ie 2018 ) therefore able to stay with and give the team some continuity. Believe me it is not just one club doing it. The continual race to the reducing of the league standard has got to stop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted April 21, 2018 12 hours ago, tellboy said: No,no,no.Don't forget he loves himself. Maybe you think your riders are not trying in heat 15,as a paying punter i would be very upset if i thought this was happening at Lynn.Good to see ht 15 at Lynn when Lynn had all the points that R.Lambert wasn't just going through the motions It's not just about riders trying, it's about the significance of the race for supporters in terms of how important it is. The frustrating thing is that the 2 points for a win of 6 or less was dropped because, apparently, it meant fans were disappounted if they dropped a point. Surely that was the whole point of it and why it worked. For me, if the match is won, I would be more than happy to see a rider who needs to bring his average down come out in heat 15 and throw in a nice, handy last place. Jason Doyle himself tweeted last year that it looked like he had ridden himself out of a job, which almost proved to be the case until Somerset picked him up. And I'm not even going to try to explain the "46 points to win a match but the average is 42.5" logic. It's been done to death on here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clambo71 136 Posted April 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Grachan said: It's not just about riders trying, it's about the significance of the race for supporters in terms of how important it is. The frustrating thing is that the 2 points for a win of 6 or less was dropped because, apparently, it meant fans were disappounted if they dropped a point. Surely that was the whole point of it and why it worked. For me, if the match is won, I would be more than happy to see a rider who needs to bring his average down come out in heat 15 and throw in a nice, handy last place. Jason Doyle himself tweeted last year that it looked like he had ridden himself out of a job, which almost proved to be the case until Somerset picked him up. And I'm not even going to try to explain the "46 points to win a match but the average is 42.5" logic. It's been done to death on here. Has the rule regarding averages changed. It use to be only the 4 programmed rides counted not heat 15 nominated rides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,779 Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) I agree about the scoring system, it was one of British speedway's best ever ideas which worked really well, then they went and spoilt it by giving the home team three points for any win. Hopefully one day they'll put it back to how it was. Edited April 21, 2018 by Bagpuss 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tellboy 3,660 Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Grachan said: It's not just about riders trying, it's about the significance of the race for supporters in terms of how important it is. The frustrating thing is that the 2 points for a win of 6 or less was dropped because, apparently, it meant fans were disappounted if they dropped a point. Surely that was the whole point of it and why it worked. For me, if the match is won, I would be more than happy to see a rider who needs to bring his average down come out in heat 15 and throw in a nice, handy last place. Jason Doyle himself tweeted last year that it looked like he had ridden himself out of a job, which almost proved to be the case until Somerset picked him up. And I'm not even going to try to explain the "46 points to win a match but the average is 42.5" logic. It's been done to death on here. My view as a supporter on this is most riders will race for the victory in ht 15 regardless of the score.When Lynn race i first look at when they have claimed the victory and then i want them to go on and deny the away team any points at all.Rye House found this out to their cost last season by not getting enough points away. I don't get what you mean by trying to explain the 46 points to win a match.I'm sure 99% of the time you do. And for what it's worth i prefer the old scoring system. Edited April 21, 2018 by tellboy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambo 1,340 Posted April 21, 2018 2 hours ago, clambo71 said: Has the rule regarding averages changed. It use to be only the 4 programmed rides counted not heat 15 nominated rides. I'm not sure when, or if, your interpretation was the case, but for as long as I have been interested in Averages, it's been all rides in a meeting. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
colin wood 249 Posted April 21, 2018 Of course it matters if the away team get a point or not,all points count towards getting in the play off positions.The point Poole got at BV could be crucial come the end of the season.A point away from home is a good result. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted April 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Grachan said: And I'm not even going to try to explain the "46 points to win a match but the average is 42.5" logic. It's been done to death on here. The CMA works on a basis of riders taking four rides a meeting. Seven riders taking four rides each covers 14 heats. Say you have seven 6 point riders in a team. The total average would be 42, under the limit. Then two riders take a heat advantage in heat 15...... A combined team average of 42.5 converts to 45.53 over 15 heats. (15/14x42.5). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DunRobin 465 Posted April 21, 2018 6 hours ago, clambo71 said: Has the rule regarding averages changed. It use to be only the 4 programmed rides counted not heat 15 nominated rides. Heat 15 points count towards the averages but when the averages are calculated, the total of points are divided by the number of rides & multiplied by 4 to determine the average. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites