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Phil The Ace

Thursday night speedway at swindon

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3 hours ago, Aces High said:

It appears that way but I would have thought that having a league of second tier riders dedicated to riding in the UK would only accelerate that regression. If this was the solution wouldn't the Championship clubs would be doing a lot better than they are? 

Because they have imported many of the factors crippling the top tier: chaotic fixture lists, excessive guests and costs. It's also been busy supplying tracks to prop up the higher tier and as a result has become predominantly a shrunken east coast league with large tracts of the country remote from its members.

The guest problem is hopefully being addressed this year but the clash between Swindon's fixtures and those of the Thursday CL tracks has already arisen.

The road ahead is not to create a league based on today's CL but one based on, for argument's sake the original British League where the few surviving National League (D1)  teams finally realised they had to work on the Provincial League's (D2) terms to build one strong, healthy league with a robust, varied fixture list and teams that the sport could afford, the latter achieved through rider control, later points limits. 

An amalgamation would not be an instant remedy but it would be a significant step forward in providing realistic fixture lists and hopefully teams where guests are a rarity. 

As ever, it's a little more complex than saying "Well, if the second tier's so good then why aren't they getting better crowds?". Evils that cripple the top tier affect all levels of our sport. Continuity and team stability are key to getting the faith back of the disappearing supporters, but most crucially we must re-create a sport with credible governance, where riders don't treat it as easily avoidable paid practice for more important pay days elsewhere, and give a sense of value for money and leave people wanting more. Sadly today we seem to be dependent on those who don't really care for the sport, just the glory of their team winning. That may work in football but not ion a minority sport like ours. 

Edited by RobMcCaffery
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Our teams are not dismantled every year at all, I don't know why people keep saying that! My team has just 2 new riders this year, all the rest are either from last year or have a long term relationship with Lynn. 

Re not knowing anything about local speedway, it's because people today read rubbish like 'The Sun' rather than their local newspapers where local sport is covered! 

Championship promoters want the best riders they can get hence all the doubling up. It does suit many riders tis true to race for 2 teams in the UK but it does maybe stop youngsters progressing? 

Edited by Trees

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45 minutes ago, Trees said:

Our teams are not dismantled every year at all, I don't know why people keep saying that! My team has just 2 new riders this year, all the rest are either from last year or have a long term relationship with Lynn. 

Re not knowing anything about local speedway, it's because people today read rubbish like 'The Sun' rather than their local newspapers where local sport is covered! 

Championship promoters want the best riders they can get hence all the doubling up. It does suit many riders tis true to race for 2 teams in the UK but it does maybe stop youngsters progressing? 

Same at Somerset Trees - albeit a different team from last year, Doyle and Wilson-Dean have returned having ridden for us before so the only newbies are Jepperson and Holder... and then Holder signed for us a few years back before being dropped because of an average cock up. It's one of those myths where if people keep saying it enough, people start believing it!

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7 hours ago, Trees said:

It does suit many riders tis true to race for 2 teams in the UK but it does maybe stop youngsters progressing? 

This is the main reason for the decline of the sport in the UK (in my opinion). Seriously, would you have seen Kings Lynn as 'your team' back in the day if Terry Betts had ridden for Peterborough the following night and Malcolm Simmons was representing Ipswich the following day? 

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9 hours ago, KevH said:

This is the main reason for the decline of the sport in the UK (in my opinion). Seriously, would you have seen Kings Lynn as 'your team' back in the day if Terry Betts had ridden for Peterborough the following night and Malcolm Simmons was representing Ipswich the following day? 

Well yea .Nick Morris riders other clubs in the other league but swindon fans just look at him as one of there own ..i doubt anyone would care of he rode for Oxford and reading in the pl the next night ..the trouble with speedway  is there are to many myths about why people don' go .

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3 hours ago, orion said:

Well yea .Nick Morris riders other clubs in the other league but swindon fans just look at him as one of there own ..i doubt anyone would care of he rode for Oxford and reading in the pl the next night ..the trouble with speedway  is there are to many myths about why people don' go .

It was a problem that irritated fans when doubling up riders were missing to ride for their other team but that problem has largely been eradicated by the fixed nights. Fans are more concerned about being able to identify with their riders and a lack of continuity is a bigger reason for fans to lose interest than being concerned about doubling up. I think that most Belle Vue fans see Bewley riding for Workington or, Fricke riding in Poland, as something that will help make them better riders but that in no way makes them any less Belle Vue riders.

Edited by Aces51
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Speedway is poor value for money, whatever way you dress it up. In these times of austerity, people just can't afford it.

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Back in the day of Michael Lee and Terry Betts and that old wooden stadium we had at Saddlebow Road, there were a group of  22 people who religiously brought their Grandstand tickets  for the seated areas next to the pit gate, entering the first bend.   This group of people attended every Lynn meeting for years   and  frequently away meetings as well.   Where ever the Stars raced that group was represented every time.   Everyone was on first name terms, and bantered with each other over their favourite rider.   Such was the closeness of that group of people  Christmas and birthday cards were and are always sent .

The point I'm making,    These cards are still sent and it is through them that contact is still there.    Through these cards, last Christmas  I actually questioned those about their once devotion of speedway and asked their feeling now.   I except most have moved on and are now considerably older, but some of them still watch when its on the tele,   Quite a few had visited Lynn and didn't like what they saw,  Some said their weren't enough races , other said there was no excitement, but all said it cost way too much for them to be interested.  

Of them 22 people,   4 have since past away,    8 watched it on the television,     and 4 more said they read about when possible.    Of those one  still purchased the SS to keep abreast of the news .

Which meant I am the only one  remaining that continues to go and support the Kings Lynn Stars...      How many other  clubs can say of similar occurrence.... 

The big question here is:    If the sport cannot tempt those fans,  who once had a devotion ,   to  attend now,   What chance has it of attracting new fans who know nothing about the sport.. 

 

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20 hours ago, KevH said:

This is the main reason for the decline of the sport in the UK (in my opinion). Seriously, would you have seen Kings Lynn as 'your team' back in the day if Terry Betts had ridden for Peterborough the following night and Malcolm Simmons was representing Ipswich the following day? 

Yes, probably, it makes no difference to me tbh, I’m a Stars fan, I only rarely go to a team meeting that doesn’t include my team, I just don’t have that emotional attachment.  

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4 hours ago, g13webb said:

Back in the day of Michael Lee and Terry Betts and that old wooden stadium we had at Saddlebow Road, there were a group of  22 people who religiously brought their Grandstand tickets  for the seated areas next to the pit gate, entering the first bend.   This group of people attended every Lynn meeting for years   and  frequently away meetings as well.   Where ever the Stars raced that group was represented every time.   Everyone was on first name terms, and bantered with each other over their favourite rider.   Such was the closeness of that group of people  Christmas and birthday cards were and are always sent .

The point I'm making,    These cards are still sent and it is through them that contact is still there.    Through these cards, last Christmas  I actually questioned those about their once devotion of speedway and asked their feeling now.   I except most have moved on and are now considerably older, but some of them still watch when its on the tele,   Quite a few had visited Lynn and didn't like what they saw,  Some said their weren't enough races , other said there was no excitement, but all said it cost way too much for them to be interested.  

Of them 22 people,   4 have since past away,    8 watched it on the television,     and 4 more said they read about when possible.    Of those one  still purchased the SS to keep abreast of the news .

Which meant I am the only one  remaining that continues to go and support the Kings Lynn Stars...      How many other  clubs can say of similar occurrence.... 

The big question here is:    If the sport cannot tempt those fans,  who once had a devotion ,   to  attend now,   What chance has it of attracting new fans who know nothing about the sport.. 

 

Compare the price now to the price in the seventies and eighties, I bet it is on a par to the average earnings?  Of course if you are a concession/very low earner then maybe it is expensive but if you’re on £300/£1000 a week then not so .......

Everyone loses their enthusiasm as they get older, that’s why Polish crowds are singing, chanting and having fun, they are all young lol

If we went to speedway thinking we’re gonna enjoy ourselves, get a couples of alcoholic drinks into us like the Poles do, then the enjoyment might flow, no, some of us choose to moan and groan about every little thing possible cos that’s what older people do except of course my m8 Josey, if the stadium was full of Joseys we’d all be having a great time :D

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On 5/2/2018 at 7:17 AM, g13webb said:

I think you're burying your head a little bit here,    Back in the 70s  the wage was around £50/60 a week,  and petrol was 6 bob a gallon ( 30p),  I could take the wife and the kiddies, buy 2 programmes, drinks and burgers  all round for less than a tenner.  The night was full of enjoyment and exciting races that kept everyone interested.   Looking back at a 74 programme that cost 1 shilling (5p),  here were 23 races starting a 7.30 pm on a Saturday night against Hackney, (we lost  36-42.)      The tenner probably equalled a 1/6th of your weekly wage,  but we had nearly 3hrs of enjoyment  watching 23 races.   The same  day out now is very different,  with considerably less to watch,   A lesser program, perpetually drawn-out to make it last does nothing to enthral the fans.  Everything you buy, you pay through the nose,.   Petrol £ 7/ gallon,  Admission £18 a head,  Programmes £3 each   Drinks £3/4 a throw.  Before, it was excepted as  a normal price for a night out and each believed they received VFM,  not any more....

It would be wrong to pin all the blame on costs,  for the sport was much different then, the Bike were slower and the competition was much closer.  Missing the gate wasn't the be-all importance then as it created more excitement.   Every race was competitive and closely fought.    Today's  super fast bikes, that cost the earth,   produce  a different race from the ones we use to watch.     All the low torque engines have been replaced with high revving ones.   Exhaust and tyres play their part .  The throttles now are  either open or closed, very little  control how there once was. The emphasis has moved from the rider to the bikes, meaning far more follow the leader races,     and these don't pull in the punters.  

You only have to look at the dwindling number over the years to see the effect it has had.   But nobody takes any notice  of these facts and continues in the same old pattern.   Regardless of  how you dress it up, the sport today is not working.  and unless they address the important issues of Costs, VFM  and excitement, the sport will continue to die ...

Well i must be lucky here because two adults and 2 kids +2 programmes burger and drinks would be about a 1/7th of my wage so that is better than 1/6th.

If the oil companies weren't so bloody greedy nowadays many things would be much cheaper.As you said back then it was 30p a gallon that's just under 7p a litre.That is about 18 times that now.So if the price of oil was to decrease to a proper level we would all benefit.

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33 minutes ago, tellboy said:

Well i must be lucky here because two adults and 2 kids +2 programmes burger and drinks would be about a 1/7th of my wage so that is better than 1/6th.

If the oil companies weren't so bloody greedy nowadays many things would be much cheaper.As you said back then it was 30p a gallon that's just under 7p a litre.That is about 18 times that now.So if the price of oil was to decrease to a proper level we would all benefit.

The tax on petrol is the killer. So blame the government. 60p a litre + the VAT.

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2 minutes ago, Richard Weston said:

The tax on petrol is the killer. So blame the government. 60p a litre + the VAT.

Ok the government and the oil companies:approve:.That still makes it about 70p a litre which would be over 10 times what it was back in the seventies.Now if wages had gone up at the same rate we wouldn't mind so much of paying £18 entrance fee.

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1 hour ago, tellboy said:

Well i must be lucky here because two adults and 2 kids +2 programmes burger and drinks would be about a 1/7th of my wage so that is better than 1/6th.

If the oil companies weren't so bloody greedy nowadays many things would be much cheaper.As you said back then it was 30p a gallon that's just under 7p a litre.That is about 18 times that now.So if the price of oil was to decrease to a proper level we would all benefit.

Appreciate your input,   I have no problems you earning more than I did, but the differential between worker now it far greater  than it was then.   but please remember  you have to look at the cost of fuel included in the night out,  all that was  included in that tenner.  also, It not correct to compare the speedway now as we only have 15 races the evening is over way sooner than it once did.  So when comparing VFM it was way better then,  than  it is now.  

The increase in the cost of fuel really annoyed me back then,    When we were first married  I drove a 4.2  XJ6  Jaguar,  getting about  18 /20 MPG  but in an 18 month period the fuel went up 6 fold, meaning my dream car had to go.         i had to choose between  Speedway or the car, afraid the car lost......         Many times I have since wondered about my sanity 

Edited by g13webb

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