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fubar

Potters v Colts - 5/5/18

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I didn't go to Stoke last year mainly because of the consistently poor track preparation I'd seen from (at least) the previous 2 seasons.

I've been to both meetings this season and the track does actually seem better! 

They've obviously made an effort to improve the watering as the massive clouds of dust are not present and as far as I can tell it doesn't seem as rough.

That said, you still get way too many riders falling.  I think this must be something to do with the shape or comparative narrowness of the bends.

In that sense it is not a 3rd division track as young riders learning their trade do seem to struggle to get around it, if they go wide they tend to slide off straight away.

Problems with the electrics yet again are inexcusable.  Fix it once and for all.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I thought that was what the car headlights on the back straight embankment were for... :D

Funny thing is before proceedings got under way last week, the bod in the box was banging on to the assembled masses that if anyone parked on the back straight and left while racing was still going on, then under no circumstances must they apply the brakes until they were through the stadium gates. The bod then droned on that if riders saw a red light out of the corner of their eye then they might think that the race had been stopped and this could cause a very nasty accident!

I'm not entirely sure that the bod will be pontificating in the same vein before tapes up at this week's jamboree because they might be quite grateful if some of the spectators can provide red lights as well as headlights when the Prince of Darkness flips the off switch again.

Edited by fubar
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13 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

That said, you still get way too many riders falling.  I think this must be something to do with the shape or comparative narrowness of the bends.

In that sense it is not a 3rd division track as young riders learning their trade do seem to struggle to get around it, if they go wide they tend to slide off straight away.

 

A couple of years ago, I was with an MDL rider who fell off because he got his foot in a hole.  And last year, I walked out onto the track, and was horrified at the state of it: it was like broken-up concrete. It seemed a bit better whe I visited last month, but not by much. When the home heat leaders keep falling, there is something wrong.

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22 hours ago, griffo said:

I ont have anything to do with the Programme in anyway but could have been  printed to late to remove it but Marvellous how people are latching

on to this were you there Walter or just saying what others are saying, but as you say by Accidently including him in the Programme I suppose the Printer has a set Plate of that Page as is the same week after week. But as I have said Previously Roy was a well respected  member of the Loomer Road Staff and through his Charity work has Raised Thousands of Pounds the reason for his MBE  does not deserve the comment s by People that do not Know anything about him

I'm sure Roy Smallwood was a great guy and as you say the work he did for charity has to be applauded.

But to have him still listed on the Stoke website as an active official is pretty shoddy.

I see that Gary Towers is listed on the website as being a member of the track staff.

I am hopeful that this must be a different Gary Towers to the one who passed away early in 2017 after battling cancer.

Even the Gloomy Road mob can't be so insensitive to keep listing a man as being on duty over a year after he departed this world so somebody please tell me that the guy that is listed is his brother or his son and restore my faith in the management at the Theatre of Light.

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On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 5:27 PM, adonis said:

Absolutely , however SCB/BSPA inspections from previous experience normally focus their attention on lining their pockets by way of fines with money the clubs don't have , see (Milton Keynes for evidence of that  ) the end result is a perfectly safe track  because speedway has closed down and bangers frequent it , 

I am sure that we can all agree that a promotion who risk riders lives by having faulty electrics - and, lets face it, this is anything but the first time - deserves to be heavily punished. 

I really don't see that a club being unable to afford a fine for an act of gross negligence and irresponsibility is any reason not to impose a financial penalty.

The alternative, of course, is to allow them to get away scot free and continue to behave in exactly the same way. 

 

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These posts are doing my confidence no good for Saturday :(

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29 minutes ago, adonis said:

I can't see how fining an obviously cash strapped club will help anything .  I do get your point that unless they get punished somehow they will likely carry on until their failings hurt somebody or worse , maybe the BSPA could take control of the place and spend whatever money they deem necessary to make it safe ,then hand it back when they have been reimbursed or profit enough to cover the expenditure , 

It'll help because they are far more likely to put their house in order to avoid further financial penalties and because we simply cannot allow such negligence to go unpunished. Perhaps a suspended fine might be a possibility, payable only if matters do not improve.

What must be the case is that our tracks are made as safe as they can be  and that anyone who does not ensure that basic conditions for safety are in place - and there is no doubt that adequate lighting is one of them - is dealt with appropriately. 

 

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Here is a scenario for you.

As a result of some kind of defect at a track which the promoter, the referee the clerk of the course and the governing body are fully aware of, a rider suffers severe life-changing injures.

So everybody looks to the event insurance company to sort the situation out and ensure that the injured rider receives the support to which they are surely entitled.

But hey ho, the insurers turn round and say that because the promoters and the governing body were perfectly aware of the defect but chose to do nothing about it then they were surely negligent and the insurers would not be paying out a single penny.

The rider's only chance of securing the funding that they may need for their ongoing care is to bring legal action against the promoter, the clerk of the course, the referee and the governing body and that will take substantial funding and could drag on for years.

So, anybody who is involved with any enterprise whether it be a bouncy castle or a motor sport venue which may be a touch on the iffy side but who thinks that someone else will carry the can if it all goes pear-shaped might be best advised to flag up their concerns before the excrement hits the fan.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fubar said:

Here is a scenario for you.

As a result of some kind of defect at a track which the promoter, the referee the clerk of the course and the governing body are fully aware of, a rider suffers severe life-changing injures.

So everybody looks to the event insurance company to sort the situation out and ensure that the injured rider receives the support to which they are surely entitled.

But hey ho, the insurers turn round and say that because the promoters and the governing body were perfectly aware of the defect but chose to do nothing about it then they were surely negligent and the insurers would not be paying out a single penny.

The rider's only chance of securing the funding that they may need for their ongoing care is to bring legal action against the promoter, the clerk of the course, the referee and the governing body and that will take substantial funding and could drag on for years.

So, anybody who is involved with any enterprise whether it be a bouncy castle or a motor sport venue which may be a touch on the iffy side but who thinks that someone else will carry the can if it all goes pear-shaped might be best advised to flag up their concerns before the excrement hits the fan.

 

It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE
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10 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

Well, that is partly true but all suppliers of goods and services including speedway operators should have at the very least 3rd party liability insurance.

The extract from the Speedway Regulations posted below states that promoters must have insurance in place to cover accident and third party liability.

The sensible rider, such as Dean, will put in place their own personal accident insurance but this will be on top of the cover provided by the promotion.

Clearly, some riders who are struggling for funds or perhaps where a promoter has failed to pay them for a period of time may mistakenly regard the additional insurance as a

luxury which they cannot afford.

So, I stick by my original argument that promoters must ensure that there are no grounds for an insurer voiding cover on the grounds of negligence by the policy holder and

failing to rectify a frequent and serious defect that may endanger life or limb may be considered to be negligent.

 

Speedway Regulations

Promotions must have effective Insurance cover for Personal Accident, Employers Liability and

Public and Product liability and be responsible for the timely payment of all premiums.

It is preferred that such Insurance cover is arranged through the approved BSPA Brokers, but

should that not be so then prior approval must be sought from the SCB.

Insurance cover for Referees and Officials officially appointed to the meeting by the SCB and

SCB Members and Officers attending a meeting/training session will be provided by the ACU.

Riders may be required to contribute towards the cost of Personal Accident insurance.

Personal Accident insurance shall cover all riders and all non-SCB appointed Officials (both

licensed and non-licensed) against the risk of Personal Accident.

Insurance to a “Limit of Indemnity” of £10,000,000 for any one claim or series of claims must

be held for Public and Product Liability and Employers Liability.

 

SCB registered riders, declared in a Premiership, Championship or National Development

League team, taking part in a meeting are covered by Personal Accident Insurance.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fubar said:

Well, that is partly true but all suppliers of goods and services including speedway operators should have at the very least 3rd party liability insurance.

The extract from the Speedway Regulations posted below states that promoters must have insurance in place to cover accident and third party liability.

The sensible rider, such as Dean, will put in place their own personal accident insurance but this will be on top of the cover provided by the promotion.

Clearly, some riders who are struggling for funds or perhaps where a promoter has failed to pay them for a period of time may mistakenly regard the additional insurance as a

luxury which they cannot afford.

So, I stick by my original argument that promoters must ensure that there are no grounds for an insurer voiding cover on the grounds of negligence by the policy holder and

failing to rectify a frequent and serious defect that may endanger life or limb may be considered to be negligent.

 

Speedway Regulations

Promotions must have effective Insurance cover for Personal Accident, Employers Liability and

Public and Product liability and be responsible for the timely payment of all premiums.

It is preferred that such Insurance cover is arranged through the approved BSPA Brokers, but

should that not be so then prior approval must be sought from the SCB.

Insurance cover for Referees and Officials officially appointed to the meeting by the SCB and

SCB Members and Officers attending a meeting/training session will be provided by the ACU.

Riders may be required to contribute towards the cost of Personal Accident insurance.

Personal Accident insurance shall cover all riders and all non-SCB appointed Officials (both

licensed and non-licensed) against the risk of Personal Accident.

Insurance to a “Limit of Indemnity” of £10,000,000 for any one claim or series of claims must

be held for Public and Product Liability and Employers Liability.

 

SCB registered riders, declared in a Premiership, Championship or National Development

League team, taking part in a meeting are covered by Personal Accident Insurance.

The public liability insurance is more for the crowd than the riders, the basic insurance for the riders is poor and always has been but is better than nothing so most get their own personal insurance and the riders benevelent fund also help, I’m not sure they take on new riders anymore but the one to have was the CICA insurance, it was used by pretty much all the riders and sports people in general and it covers you for all sorts of injuries not just racing but they stopped taking new riders a few years ago I believe because some sports competitors were falsely claiming for injuries, not speedway riders other sports but I have always had my suspicions about one rider that was abusing the system 

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

have It doesn’t work like that for competitors in motor sport and rightly so, nobody is forcing you to race and so you are really you are excepting the dangers involved, the last thing any sport needs is someone trying to challenge that, it would end up there being no sport whatsoever, but there should be a lot of care taken on fences, lighting and objects on the Center of track, it’s up to the rider to take out the necercary personal insurance, any rider riding without it is a fool , I still have mine today even though I retired years ago as it covers pretty much any accident ,on another point about stoke’s track being rough or whatever has it ever occurred to riders that they maybe riding the wrong engine ?? Unlikely, but it is a fact that a good percentage of NL riders are riding engines that they have no idea about the equipment they are riding or how to set a bike up but of course they will always tell you it’s the track 

To my knowledge, Chris Johnson did precisely that when he was severely injured at King's Lynn. Also to my knowledge, he won. I believe Jamie Smith did too, again at King's Lynn.

I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that speedway is most dangerous and that riders have to be aware of both that and the fact that they risk their lives every time they take to the track. They should therefore take every precaution possible, including - if necessary - personal insurance.

However, that in no way absolves a promotion of any responsibility should someone get badly hurt because they too have a duty  to make sure that the track is as safe as it can be. Chris Holder and Luke Priest were very seriously injured as a result of an air fence not being properly fastened down, and they would certainly have a case against a promoter - something was certainly mentioned about Holder taking legal action - for failing to take adequate measures to ensure their safety. 

Lights is a very good example. If they blew in the middle of a race and a rider crashed as a result (when he most certainly would not have done otherwise) if it is found that the electrics were faulty the promotion would be culpable and therefore liable. 

Riders do accept just how dangerous speedway is, I am sure.  But if it is shown that the risks have been increased (to whatever degree) by the negligence of a promotion that goes beyond the dangers that they might reasonably have accepted.  

Edited by Halifaxtiger

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55 minutes ago, adonis said:

if you could get personal injury insurance for speedway these days ,not many Nl riders could afford the premium 

l

l

It costs about the same as having the latest mobile phone with a contract 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, adonis said:

it used to , but can you still get it ,and especially at that price ?

 

I think i pay about £350 a year for 2 policy’s but they are not the  basic ones with CICA, it’s a small price to pay even though I don’t race anymore, I did have another policy with them for being off work through sickness but being self employed you find you need to be almost dead before you have a day off so I stopped that one, I don’t know who the top riders use but there must be good insurance out there 

Edited by THE DEAN MACHINE

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I keep posting on here to stay away and the posts i have read goes to show it isn't worth spending your hard earned down there.

Promotion will never change as long as folks keep turning up giving them money.

Save your time coming here, go somewhere else to watch speedway.

 

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