Bagpuss 10,755 Posted May 23, 2018 21 hours ago, waytogo28 said: Don't worry too much about the FRN farce, it will be replaced with some other farcical rule / idea in 2019. It has been like that since the last century and will not change with the current promoters running things. Is the idea to get every team's crowd level below 500 and then there is some complicated tax avoidance scheme?. There must be some purpose behind such foolishness. Whereas far away in another country they are worrying about crowd levels below 5,000. Hmmm. Whether FRN works or not it's not difficult to see why it was implemented ie double uppers not having their UK meetings clashing and originally for UK top league fixtures to not clash with meetings in other countries until the Wednesday/Thursday/Denmark mess. If it doesn't work then fair enough but at least they are trying to solve a problem which many punters had identified. And I'm not a BSPA apologist, they get plenty wrong. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,755 Posted May 23, 2018 18 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: You're very lucky to not be a Stars fan as you would be hung, drawn and quartered for comments like that. They're getting a very touchy bunch if you talk negative. If people continually spout negativity and stay silent when there is good stuff to comment on then they must expect to get challenged, you must accept that? I think the majority of people recognise that their are positives and negatives and comment a accordingly. It's all about balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted May 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: If people continually spout negativity and stay silent when there is good stuff to comment on then they must expect to get challenged, you must accept that? I think the majority of people recognise that their are positives and negatives and comment a accordingly. It's all about balance. It is about balance, totally. Over the last 12 months I have been negative, maybe over the top to some, maybe justifiable to others. For me it's justified after last season. Lost all faith in King's Lynn's owner. To me he is a shark and not interested in his clubs supporters. In the previous 30 years I'd been nothing but bleed King's Lynn so I think it's a little unfair to be called "always a negative person". At the same time though their are those that are delusional and see no wrong at all, there certainly are 2 Stars posters on here that come under that bracket. Don't see why their opinion is any more valid than the opposite opinion? Same as the posts from someone that attends to someone that doesn't. We're all entitled and for me last year was the final straw. Some will say forget and move on. That's what we've always done with this club but there's alway a breaking point for everyone. Mine has been reached. 30 years a fan destroyed in 2017. If someone says to me I'm always negative, they deserve a comeback as they don't know me at all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Najjer 2,876 Posted May 23, 2018 21 hours ago, mikebv said: Spot on. .. And some will say "we have had guests for donkeys years"... And indeed we have, however... The days of turning up at a track, without any prior knowledge, and being peed off to find out PC wasn't there and that another teams' best rider replaced him have long, long gone... Sweden and Poland run fixed nights and don't use guests.... Their Championships therefore have credibility... We run the same system and still have guests... Meaning our Championships don't have credibilty.. It's interesting we didn't use one fixed night like Sweden. So as, I presume, to facilitate the use of guests... And then our version of 'two fixed nights' is actually three, and that all fixtures are arranged, it would appear, to again, facilitate guest replacements, unlike Poland, who with their three nights still don't use guests.. What you got away with in years gone by, doesn't mean in this age of 'instant news' you can still get away with it today... When we found out PC wasn't there after we had paid our hard earned to get in, we often moaned to each other, but it was to the 10 or so people around you.... Nowadays you know BV are missing riders days in advance and instead of moaning to ten people, literally thousands on various forums get to read it... And then make their decision to attend the fixture... With many, 100% understandably, deciding against it.. If you don't run any Sport with credibility and integrity, you simply cannot complain when you struggle to generate decent crowds every week. And when you add on that winning that Sports Championship's mean very little (by the very way they are won), and you have real problems I would suggest.. Very good post. If baffles me why teams have the option of a guest or R/R when an unavailable or injured rider is missing. R/R should be the only option if only 1 rider is missing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: until the Wednesday/Thursday/Denmark mess. That is exactly my point it is a FRN farce / mess for many KL Stars fans because they are regularly denuded on Weds by the rights of Denmark to use several of the Stars team ( inc their No1. ) It is a farce if the KL promoter - who doubles up as the Chairperson of the BSPA - was not able to see that before it was set in stone. But you are right they will get that or something else right in 2019. But how many more fans will walk away disillusioned by then. It isn't being negative to point out why someone is currently very fed up with how things are done in UK speedway. No need for a forum if we are all only supposed to be gushing over everything that promoters do. Not that you are. Edited May 23, 2018 by waytogo28 additional point made 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bagpuss 10,755 Posted May 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: If someone says to me I'm always negative, they deserve a comeback as they don't know me at all. Precisely, they don't know you. They can only go by what is written on here and if they haven't been on the forum long or didn't know you as screamer they will form an opinion on what they have recently read. I don't think anyone's opinion is more important than anyone else's but those who are over positive or over negative will get challenged. Nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't get personal or abusive. The bottom line is that we all care about our club and our sport otherwise we wouldn't be on here. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,645 Posted May 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: Precisely, they don't know you. They can only go by what is written on here and if they haven't been on the forum long or didn't know you as screamer they will form an opinion on what they have recently read. I don't think anyone's opinion is more important than anyone else's but those who are over positive or over negative will get challenged. Nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't get personal or abusive. The bottom line is that we all care about our club and our sport otherwise we wouldn't be on here. There is one paticular poster that does get personal and I believe they are also from inside the club too just by their tone 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haza 1,765 Posted May 24, 2018 At the end of the day we all want a successfully run club on and off track with fans customers whatever you want to call them put first and foremost they forgotten how to make customers feel special and wanted - why I’ve walked away mainly I felt we was being totally taken for granted that we would turn up hand over our cash and be totally happy with what’s on offer no questions asked . Last season was the final straw for me - i might return at some point this season I might not I’ve found other things to do on a Wednesday and I’m enjoying doing them . Negative or positive all views are equally important - the one thing the club just might learn something from if they was to listen is why so many long term fans have turned there back and walked away . 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted May 24, 2018 15 minutes ago, Haza said: At the end of the day we all want a successfully run club on and off track with fans customers whatever you want to call them put first and foremost they forgotten how to make customers feel special and wanted - why I’ve walked away mainly I felt we was being totally taken for granted that we would turn up hand over our cash and be totally happy with what’s on offer no questions asked . Last season was the final straw for me - i might return at some point this season I might not I’ve found other things to do on a Wednesday and I’m enjoying doing them . Negative or positive all views are equally important - the one thing the club just might learn something from if they was to listen is why so many long term fans have turned there back and walked away . Burying ones head is the biggest reason why our sport has never prospered. Positive comments are all very well, but Negative ones are probably more important. These are the posts from supporters who are not happy with the way they were treated. The club has to listen to those or lose them. Probably had the promoters listened to them in the past , the crowds would be bigger than they are at present. From a seasoned supporter of the sport, I go most weeks and thoroughly enjoy the racing. but I am not blind to the way fans are treated. Last week it took 2 hr 10 mins to run 15 races. That's terrible organisation, far longer than most other clubs. Just because Robert and the team put on a good display, this is no excuse for the delays we always face. I don't blame the club, when Lambert didn't get back or for the problems with Danish riders going missing, but I do blame them for not keeping the fans up to date with everything... I for one value negative opinions... They are of far more value to the club than those who can only see good..... 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waytogo28 2,054 Posted May 24, 2018 Those who believe that "all is well" and only praise the hard work and commitment of speedway promoters are looking through rose tinted glasses. Emperors New Clothes syndrome. Only by looking at how the sport is run in the UK objectively and taking on a wide range of points of view, about what is wrong and how that can be improved, will positive change ever happen. With that could come a new generation of fans ( and the return of some of those who have walked away ). What ailing business would ignore feedback and not find a way to use that information to change for the better? Look at how things change in the High Street or with any retail operation. Burying heads in the sand and "carrying on regardless" is the way to extinction. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,233 Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 8:15 AM, waytogo28 said: Those who believe that "all is well" and only praise the hard work and commitment of speedway promoters are looking through rose tinted glasses. Emperors New Clothes syndrome. Only by looking at how the sport is run in the UK objectively and taking on a wide range of points of view, about what is wrong and how that can be improved, will positive change ever happen. With that could come a new generation of fans ( and the return of some of those who have walked away ). What ailing business would ignore feedback and not find a way to use that information to change for the better? Look at how things change in the High Street or with any retail operation. Burying heads in the sand and "carrying on regardless" is the way to extinction. I actually think bringing 'ex fans' back is a lot easier than generating new ones.. And let's face it, there are a big number of 'ex fans' on EVERY clubs' doorstep... There are many, many social media outlets to browse, not to mention the Speedway Stars letter pages over the past ten years or so if Promoters still need a clue... If each track could get just 500 of these 'ex fans' back it would make a huge difference to the Sport. (An incredible 'small' number in the grand scheme of things but that just shows how far the sport has regressed).. Listen to why they stopped going, lose the egotistical attitude of "we are right, they are wrong, and if it wasnt for us there would be no Speedway" and put fixes in place to correct what is wrong... As a starting point... Credibilty, integrity, with an evening of entertainment at a price point commensurate with what's actually on offer... Edited May 25, 2018 by mikebv 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ABS 231 Posted May 25, 2018 I said many years ago that the consistent dilution, annually, of the product on offer, combined with increases in price could only lead one way. More for less is great, but less for more? Now we arrive at a situation where my club is forced to run on either a Monday or a Wednesday (neither great nights) without even having a vote in the matter. The result - a considerable drop in attendance/revenue and history shows us that once fans are lost, very few return. But hey ho, all is fine and rosy with the BSPA - the sport is in great shape, attendances are on the rise, fans are happy to watch "select" teams racing each other, so no problems. We'll see come the end of the season. 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winstoncigar 23 Posted May 25, 2018 6 hours ago, ABS said: I said many years ago that the consistent dilution, annually, of the product on offer, combined with increases in price could only lead one way. More for less is great, but less for more? Now we arrive at a situation where my club is forced to run on either a Monday or a Wednesday (neither great nights) without even having a vote in the matter. The result - a considerable drop in attendance/revenue and history shows us that once fans are lost, very few return. But hey ho, all is fine and rosy with the BSPA - the sport is in great shape, attendances are on the rise, fans are happy to watch "select" teams racing each other, so no problems. We'll see come the end of the season. you may not have to wait until the end of the season........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted May 26, 2018 The UK is 3rd or 4th in line for rider availability so we can’t dictate when clubs here want to ride. No doubt it will get worse under Brexit. We can either accept the current situation as bad as it is or dilute the leagues further and provide teams with more UK based riders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,331 Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Many fans on this Forum do not see any Positives this season that come from the AGM ( myself included) but we are told we are just being negitive.I would like someone to produce a list of what they think has positively changed this season for the better for their Club.! I still regularly attend and don't think there has been much improvement. Edited May 26, 2018 by Fromafar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
