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mickthemuppet

Fixed night farce-how much longer

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9 hours ago, stevebrum said:

And you think the farcical of doubling up and tripling up on the same night is better?

Supporters have been haemorrhaging due to the stubbornness of the promoters and governing body and sticking with the nonsense of allowing riders to ride in as many leagues as they want and allow clubs to clash on who has priority. 

Supporters want to know that their 7 riders will be there for virtually every meeting. At least this way there is a good chance of retaining what is basically the hardcore support. 

Staying on the same road as before was doomed to failure. At least this way we have a chance to survive as a credible sport. 

That strikes me as a post from a supporter of a club which has been able to retain its race night and who is blind to the affect it is having on the sport at large.

The fact is that Belle Vue last season with doubling up clashes and despite many fans being unhappy with it attracted significantly larger crowds than they are this year without those clashes.  It would seem that at least some of the others who had to switch their race nights are in a similar position.  It is still early days into this season and I think we should wait a while longer and see how things develop but I have no doubt that if there is no significant improvement in crowd levels we are getting into a situation that could have disastrous consequences for the PL.

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10 hours ago, geoff58 said:

crowds are down for everyone poor last night at poole as well :o

And that is the point..its been taken as a given that the change of race night is the sole reason behind the so called drop in crowds ..it looks  like crowds are down general  even if there race night has not been changed

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Just now, Aces51 said:

That strikes me as a post from a supporter of a club which has been able to retain its race night and who is blind to the affect it is having on the sport at large.

The fact is that Belle Vue last season with doubling up clashes and despite many fans being unhappy with it attracted significantly larger crowds than they are this year without those clashes.  It would seem that at least some of the others who had to switch their race nights are in a similar position.  It is still early days into this season and I think we should wait a while longer and see how things develop but I have no doubt that if there is no significant improvement in crowd levels we are getting into a situation that could have disastrous consequences for the PL.

Then you misinterpret my point then. I'm not a blind faithful follower of all things Wolves.  I'm a speedway fan first and foremost. 

Didn't Belle Vue use to have Monday as it's regular night for many a year until the NSS open?  Obviously there are plenty that are unhappy with the switch back to Mondays as it's now clear Friday is the best night for speedway in Manchester. Even tho it wasn't an  option for many a year when fans used to attend.

We need to get speedway in the UK back to a credible place where it will see more that got disillusioned by all the constant guests and RR that we previously had for years coming back to support their clubs again.  Whether it's too little to late it's too early to say.

Anything that gives clubs more use of their riders the better I say,

The top flight has been in a precarious position for quite a while now,  I'm not blind to see that. 

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Yes, Belle Vue raced on Mondays, but certainly not out of choice and it nearly killed them at the dog track. When the NSS opened it gave them the lifeline of switching back to Fridays. Now that lifeline's been cut. Still, Wolves, King's Lynn and Poole are ok.....

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13 hours ago, iainb said:

From what I can see so far the FRN is doing exactly what it's designed to do and cut down on the fixture clashes between PL and CL, the concept is right but the execution is wrong. IMO what they should have done was choose 2 out of Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and run on those days with the only exception of 1 televised meeting a week whenever BT Sport wanted to show it. All they had to do was steer clear of Tuesday and Wednesday for Sweden and Denmark. If that means waving goodbye to GP riders or riders racing in the Polish leagues then so be it. The time has come for riders to choose between 40 or so meetings in Britain or a handful elsewhere around Europe, it's time to put the sport first and not the riders

But there are now so many who have squad places with Polish second and third division sides, who even if not selected in the team regularly, would prefer not to jeopardise that and are reluctant to ride for UK teams on Saturdays and Sundays. There just wouldn't be enough riders. How many CL teams now have Sat or Sun as the main race night?

The future for Saturday's and Sundays is NL

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3 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

Then you misinterpret my point then. I'm not a blind faithful follower of all things Wolves.  I'm a speedway fan first and foremost. 

Didn't Belle Vue use to have Monday as it's regular night for many a year until the NSS open?  Obviously there are plenty that are unhappy with the switch back to Mondays as it's now clear Friday is the best night for speedway in Manchester. Even tho it wasn't an  option for many a year when fans used to attend.

We need to get speedway in the UK back to a credible place where it will see more that got disillusioned by all the constant guests and RR that we previously had for years coming back to support their clubs again.  Whether it's too little to late it's too early to say.

Anything that gives clubs more use of their riders the better I say,

The top flight has been in a precarious position for quite a while now,  I'm not blind to see that. 

They only raced on a Monday at the dog track because their landlords decided that they were going to have dog racing on a Friday. Crowds have never been as good on a Monday and that was why they moved to Friday as soon as they could. When they moved to the NSS and to Friday crowds increased significantly and now this season, with no difference, other than the change of race night, they have dropped alarmingly.

I agree with you that we need to find a system to avoid doubling up clashes but FNR as presently operated seems not to be the answer at Belle Vue and other tracks. So far it has  brought about a bigger percentage drop in crowd numbers season on season than I have ever witnessed, apart from when we moved from Hyde Road. We have lost between a quarter and a third of the total at one fell swoop. Continuing with doubling up clashes, though far from desirable, is highly unlikely to have had anything like that affect because most of those so disillusioned with it that they have stopped attending have already gone. 

For clubs to survive they must, like any business, be able to race on whatever night is the most commercially viable for them. We must then find other ways to resolve doubling up clashes and the many other problems which beset the sport.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, Belle Vue raced on Mondays, but certainly not out of choice and it nearly killed them at the dog track. When the NSS opened it gave them the lifeline of switching back to Fridays. Now that lifeline's been cut. Still, Wolves, King's Lynn and Poole are ok.....

 The nearest Belle Vue went to going bust was there first year back at the new stadium as the crowds never stack up the want they needed to break even Friday or no Friday .

The bottom line is nearly every  fan said the biggest problem was not having the same 7 riders and teams being  full of rr and guests ..but the moment they do something to change that the fans what to go back how it was ..you can't win 

Edited by orion
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29 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

They only raced on a Monday at the dog track because their landlords decided that they were going to have dog racing on a Friday. Crowds have never been as good on a Monday and that was why they moved to Friday as soon as they could. When they moved to the NSS and to Friday crowds increased significantly and now this season, with no difference, other than the change of race night, they have dropped alarmingly.

I agree with you that we need to find a system to avoid doubling up clashes but FNR as presently operated seems not to be the answer at Belle Vue and other tracks. So far it has  brought about a bigger percentage drop in crowd numbers season on season than I have ever witnessed, apart from when we moved from Hyde Road. We have lost between a quarter and a third of the total at one fell swoop. Continuing with doubling up clashes, though far from desirable, is highly unlikely to have had anything like that affect because most of those so disillusioned with it that they have stopped attending have already gone. 

For clubs to survive they must, like any business, be able to race on whatever night is the most commercially viable for them. We must then find other ways to resolve doubling up clashes and the many other problems which beset the sport.

 

 

 

All very valid points.  Our governing body has allowed our leagues to get in this mess and I'm not sure how they rectify it going forward. It needs a pretty radical plan because struggling through from season to season isn't working anymore. 

I haven't heard one club talk about attendances being up , so whilst I get that some losing a regular race night will have some effect it doesn't explain  the general decline in attendance year on year.  That's a much bigger problem. 

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1 hour ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, Belle Vue raced on Mondays, but certainly not out of choice and it nearly killed them at the dog track. When the NSS opened it gave them the lifeline of switching back to Fridays. Now that lifeline's been cut. Still, Wolves, King's Lynn and Poole are ok.....

It took Tony Mole a matter of a few months to realise that speedway on a Monday at Belle Vue was unviable. The only reason Belle Vue survived was Dave Gordon buying it and covering the losses with the long term plan to build a proper speedway stadium.

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1 hour ago, orion said:

And that is the point..its been taken as a given that the change of race night is the sole reason behind the so called drop in crowds ..it looks  like crowds are down general  even if there race night has not been changed

Forcing teams to run on a Monday night was always going to see attendances fall.

It comes as no surprise that you didn't spot that.

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18 minutes ago, Fred Flange said:

Forcing teams to run on a Monday night was always going to see attendances fall.

It comes as no surprise that you didn't spot that.

He did, you didn’t read it. 

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Posted (edited)

At BV, Dave Gordon and Chris Morton were the 'sticking plaster' that held together the club whilst they raced on a Monday, and in the BV business plan to the council put forward for the NSS, it clearly mentioned Monday as not being viable and that running on Fridays and Saturdays will be THE main reason the club will be sustainable and profit making..

However, the way (British) Speedway has been ran for what feels like 'donkeys years' now has left literally thousands of fans disillusioned with it, and over those years far too many have simply drifted away to probably now make any night viable...

There is simply zero point having "great racing" if the riders doing it are just a cobbled together, one night only, guestfest select..

Without it being ran properly, the sport actively undermines the "great racing" and sadly the crowd levels attracted to these 'Mickey Mouse' meetings will never do it justice...

With the NSS you can virtually guarantee "great racing", yet I can also virtually guarantee that with the riders missing on Monday v Kings Lynn the crowd will not be in any way, shape or form, "great".....

Many on here often refer to (British) Speedway regularly "shooting itself in the foot"..

But, to be honest if (British) Speedway had a rifle, and pressed it against its foot and then pulled the trigger, I actually suspect it would quite probably miss..

Edited by mikebv

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7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, Belle Vue raced on Mondays, but certainly not out of choice and it nearly killed them at the dog track. When the NSS opened it gave them the lifeline of switching back to Fridays. Now that lifeline's been cut. Still, Wolves, King's Lynn and Poole are ok.....

Lynn wanted Thursdays though.

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41 minutes ago, mikebv said:

But, to be honest if (British) Speedway had a rifle, and pressed it against its foot and then pulled the trigger, I actually suspect it would quite probably miss..

Even with a lot of shooting practice over the last 20 years or so their aim remains very poor.

Dale Allitt at King's Lynn said this week we wanted Mondays & Thursdays for the Premier League but got Mon. & Weds and " have to make the best of it". We have heard that kind of comment numerous times over the years from BSPA and then they change something else for the next season and get that wrong! He is the Team Manager of a team with 3 or 4 Danes in it, who will be missing for 40% of the team fixtures ( inc. their No. 1 ) And they won't or daren't run on Mondays. If Swindon were allowed to continue on some Thursdays why not others? Yes, double up clashes raise their heads again. Stars V Leics had six guests or r/r in it.

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7 hours ago, Fred Flange said:

Forcing teams to run on a Monday night was always going to see attendances fall.

It comes as no surprise that you didn't spot that.

I have no doubt it has .to be honest I doubt if I would go if swindon had to ride on a Monday. But as I said the crowds are down in general so if that is the norm then Belle Vue crowds would be down as well even if they kept to riding on a Friday not as a much as a  Monday of course but down never the less  .people dont want guests and rr but at the same time want speedway on a Fri or a sat .sadly at the current time we can't have both .I expect this rule might stop at end of the season and then we can go back to people moaning about riders missing and rr again and asking why don't they do something about it .

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