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The continuing decline of Speedway

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17 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

The problem I have with Moxey's posts is that he is someone who is fully aware of speedway but doesn't go, wouldn't go if it was free and doesn't even watch it on a cable channel that he is paying for.

Given that he has no intention of going at all and has no idea whether it is good value or not why on earth should we consider that his opinion has any degree of credibility whatsoever ? 

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Fair points. But I have stated in the past why I no longer go - a few offhand,  from replacing the old tac subs to the ridiculous double points rule, allowing riders to race here , there and the moon and back, team speedway is now individual speedway as many ride for the same team with men they are enemies against on another night, another town another. A season-long qualifying system that allows so much behind the scenes cheating to enable teams to sign new riders and strengthen up in time for the Play-Off, which are supposedly money spinners but people forget how many pick and choose to attend the qualifying matches from March-September as they aren't the be-all and end-all. I can't watch a sport that has no credibility, I have seen so many races being manipulated. I cannot judge now whether an overtake is a good one or wasn't just the leader allowing it for vested interests of his team or personal gain. it is built on sand.

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1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

Fair points. But I have stated in the past why I no longer go - a few offhand,  from replacing the old tac subs to the ridiculous double points rule, allowing riders to race here , there and the moon and back, team speedway is now individual speedway as many ride for the same team with men they are enemies against on another night, another town another. A season-long qualifying system that allows so much behind the scenes cheating to enable teams to sign new riders and strengthen up in time for the Play-Off, which are supposedly money spinners but people forget how many pick and choose to attend the qualifying matches from March-September as they aren't the be-all and end-all. I can't watch a sport that has no credibility, I have seen so many races being manipulated. I cannot judge now whether an overtake is a good one or wasn't just the leader allowing it for vested interests of his team or personal gain. it is built on sand.

If you have no time for speedway, don't go and have no intention of going and won't watch it on television, what on earth are you doing on a speedway forum ? 

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16 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

If you have no time for speedway, don't go and have no intention of going and won't watch it on television, what on earth are you doing on a speedway forum ? 

He is a disillusioned former Supporter, who is as entitled to his views and to air them, as you or I.

At the end of the day - that is what the Forum is for HT.

There are a lot less People Posting on here these days - I wonder why?

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3 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

He is a disillusioned former Supporter, who is as entitled to his views and to air them, as you or I.

At the end of the day - that is what the Forum is for HT.

There are a lot less People Posting on here these days - I wonder why?

Too much ganging up.

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15 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

He is a disillusioned former Supporter, who is as entitled to his views and to air them, as you or I.

At the end of the day - that is what the Forum is for HT.

There are a lot less People Posting on here these days - I wonder why?

Absolutely, the views of those that do not attend are far more important to the future of the sport than those that see no wrong. The ever decreasing spectators is a massive massive problem yet the voices are not heard and constantly shot down, it's like tracks are getting gates of 5000+ how promoters and some fans behave.

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13 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

He is a disillusioned former Supporter, who is as entitled to his views and to air them, as you or I.

At the end of the day - that is what the Forum is for HT.

There are a lot less People Posting on here these days - I wonder why?

He is, WK. My point is why he would want to do so and why he seems to believe that others would find them credible. 

In addition, he's not just a disillusioned ex supporter. He's someone who doesn't go and has absolutely no intention of ever going or watching speedway again. That means his posts are overwhelmingly negative without a good word to be said and as bad as things might be, speedway can still be a hugely entertaining sport. 

You yourself were a disillusioned former supporter (thankfully, not any more :approve:), but there is no comparison between your previous position and his.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Absolutely, the views of those that do not attend are far more important to the future of the sport than those that see no wrong. The ever decreasing spectators is a massive massive problem yet the voices are not heard and constantly shot down, it's like tracks are getting gates of 5000+ how promoters and some fans behave.

In your case, they are worth listening to because there's a chance you'll come back.  

But what is the point of listening to someone who doesn't go, doesn't watch it on television, never says a good word about it and wouldn't go if it was free ?

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1 minute ago, Halifaxtiger said:

He is, WK. My point is why he would want to do so and why he seems to believe that others would find them credible. 

In addition, he's not just a disillusioned ex supporter. He's someone who doesn't go and has absolutely no intention of ever going or watching speedway again. That means his posts are overwhelmingly negative without a good word to be said and as bad as things might be, speedway can still be a hugely entertaining sport. 

You yourself were a disillusioned former supporter (thankfully, not any more :approve:), but there is no comparison between your previous position and his.

 

 

I find the whole Sport very depressing at present HT. What has happened at Rye House has got me wondering who will be next?

Sadly I find it quite feasible that a number of other Clubs could go the same way. I was stunned to hear Belle Vue mentioned as being possibly among the Tracks we need to be concerned about.

Where will it all end - I wonder?

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53 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

If you have no time for speedway, don't go and have no intention of going and won't watch it on television, what on earth are you doing on a speedway forum ? 

There was a time I followed speedway, and I think that gives me some kind of say in what the sport has to offer now. Remember, we are talking about the continuing decline of speedway. Well, because of that, I am one person who has bothered to still tune in to this website. I didn't just swan off and give up on it completely. I gave some of the reasons I stopped attending. The double bubble points have now been sent to the refuse tip of one-time good ideas. But how many fans waled away when one bright idea went too far - like the It's A KnockOut when they introduced that double point rule? Again, how many fans felt they'd had enough when Jon Cook gave us that Man O' Man farce in the KO Cup? I think we all have a limit that speedway tests us, whether it's standing for endless gaps while the trackstaff repair the track they've had all week to do, and then, like me, they walk away. They gave it one last chance. They were pushed one time too many. Rye House is gone, could it be Lakeside next. And you're asking why I am hovering on this site when I don't go to speedway anymore. You could be a promoter with that sort of mentality. The sport is soulless. But, never mind, fingers crossed, the cavalry of new fans will arrive when the promoters finally get their arses in gear and see the ship taking in water. With Coventry recently gone, Belle Vue almost, and now Rye House, surely more effort should have been made keeping fans instead of driving them away. Speedway gave me 40 years of entertainment. I have the experience of what started to turn me off as a fan and why I don't even want to watch it live on telly. I trudged on for five years before I stopped going. I knew it was a great sport, still is, great action. But there's more to it than the racing, the spectacle. Or else it'd be stockcars. We have a league that is worthless until August. We have Play-Offs that when raced leaves the remaining weeks of the season feeling like it had finished ages ago. And you really expect the sport to survive. Where are the newcomers that live TV should bring... who don't have the patience to see a string of re-runs before we've reach Heat 4. Then again, we're set for another winter to thrash out the problems. One big league could be a lifesaver, stop the riders riding for more than one team or in other leagues. That's how a professional sport would start to look. Until I feel it is a credible sport, I could not enter a stadium. Unless there was a Golden Greats meeting where you knew results were secondary. Riders need all the matches they can get, you say, and then one of them begging for extra dates spends £20,000 building a new garage for his equipment. The riders are agency workers, no team loyalty. Forty years ago Alan Wilkinson was confined to a wheelchair. Perhaps growing up in the days of such icons spoilt my judgement on what I expect from riders now. But men today have to earn a living... but so did Wilkie, and we didn't see him riding for anyone but the Aces.

Edited by moxey63

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28 minutes ago, foamfence said:

Too much ganging up.

So very, very true ff. :sad::sad::sad:

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3 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

I find the whole Sport very depressing at present HT. What has happened at Rye House has got me wondering who will be next?

Sadly I find it quite feasible that a number of other Clubs could go the same way. I was stunned to hear Belle Vue mentioned as being possibly among the Tracks we need to be concerned about.

Where will it all end - I wonder?

I don't know, my friend.

Phil Rising's comment that it is the worst he has known in 50 years - and he's been involved for at least that long - was scary. I can only hope there will be a resurgence, but can't see how. 

One thing though, I have no doubt that speedway - of some kind - will survive.

 

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15 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

In your case, they are worth listening to because there's a chance you'll come back.  

But what is the point of listening to someone who doesn't go, doesn't watch it on television, never says a good word about it and wouldn't go if it was free ?

It is called frustration. I am assuming you are a fan of the old Halifax. One day you'd like them to return. One day I'd like speedway to go back to how it was, not 40 years ago, but perhaps 20 years ago. You could have been lost to the sport when Halifax closed. Many fans have been lost when they took one last punch by a bad speedway experience - a rain-off when the sun was out, an abandoned meeting after Heat 6 when the promoter had cashed the takings. They probably detached themselves from the sport and never read or heard about it again. But you, Halifaxtiger, like me, were unwilling to walk away. My hope is that we'll go back to one big league, give riders chance to race three or four times a week so they don't need double up, double down or racing in Swedish and Polish leagues.  The way it is now, the riders are getting more from it than the fans.

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9 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't know, my friend.

Phil Rising's comment that it is the worst he has known in 50 years - and he's been involved for at least that long - was scary. I can only hope there will be a resurgence, but can't see how. 

One thing though, I have no doubt that speedway - of some kind - will survive.

 

Yes - I've been around Speedway since 1964 and I feel the same as Philip.

We can only hope that he and I are wrong.

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I don't mind the ganging up. Here's a little story. Over 10 years ago when I was a regular on the Belle Vue site, there were many who slagged me off for my views on the way speedway was going. I got out of the habit of logging onto the site but ventured in it one time... and the number of people who were saying the same things I'd been saying just five or so years earlier. As someone else said, the BSF doesn't seem to be as busy as it used to be. But, eh, here's my voice trying to be silenced by the few who still believe the Titanic was unsinkable. 

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24 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

I find the whole Sport very depressing at present HT. What has happened at Rye House has got me wondering who will be next?

Sadly I find it quite feasible that a number of other Clubs could go the same way. I was stunned to hear Belle Vue mentioned as being possibly among the Tracks we need to be concerned about.

Where will it all end - I wonder?

You'll remember the amalgamation of the leagues for 1965 helped save the day for speedway, TWK. We have to do it again.

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