The continuing decline of Speedway

[Spl77 337]

I want to see is my team v their team with the contracted riders and not a whole host guests and doubling up etc. Until they can get rid of doubling up and and guests no one can take it as a serious team sport. Its impossible to build up rivalry either between teams or individual riders if the following week some of this weeks visitors are riding for you. The blame for the chas that doubling has brought and the resulting lack of riders can only be placed firmly at the door of the BSPA. Before I get shot down and the 'guests are part of speedway and can't be helped' line comes out remember if you can the National League of the mid to late 1980s. That league ran for number of seasons with out guests and injuries were covered either with a member of the junior team stepping on or with rider replacement and a number 8 being named. So it could be done however the policy changes brought in over the years by the BSPA saw that system removed and changed to the shambles that we see today. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Spl77

[chunky 6,086]

13 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...Interesting views and I have watched speedway via you-tube and/or DVDs from the so-called Pioneer Years and it seemed so much rawer back then and less refined. Perhaps modern speedway is too clinical and less 'dirty' but I guess that would be a backward step in this modern age? 

That is exactly the way I feel. Speedway evolved from "dirt-track" racing.  Watching burly men wrestling bucking broncos through heavy cinders was a spectacle!  It wasn't just about passing, or close racing; watching the skill and sheer strength that was needed to keep a bike upright was worth the admission price!

Sad thing, it's not just speedway.

Now, we have fancy "motocross" on man-made indoor circuits instead of "scrambles" in waist-high mud!

We have cool looking indoor trials over man-made obstacles rather than run the risk of getting dirty outdoors.

Football went from a man's game to a an over-refined non-contact sport.

Hell, look at life in general.  We see these Facebook posts about what life was like when we were kids.  We went outside, we got dirty, we got wet, we ate dirt, we drank from hosepipes, we played football with metal studs, we fell off slides and roundabouts and landed face first on gravel!  "Ooooh no, we can't do that now..."

None of that is cool now, and a much duller world it is as a result...

Steve

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by chunky

[customhouseregular 1,651]

2 hours ago, chunky said:

That is exactly the way I feel. Speedway evolved from "dirt-track" racing.  Watching burly men wrestling bucking broncos through heavy cinders was a spectacle!  It wasn't just about passing, or close racing; watching the skill and sheer strength that was needed to keep a bike upright was worth the admission price!

Sad thing, it's not just speedway.

Now, we have fancy "motocross" on man-made indoor circuits instead of "scrambles" in waist-high mud!

We have cool looking indoor trials over man-made obstacles rather than run the risk of getting dirty outdoors.

Football went from a man's game to a an over-refined non-contact sport.

Hell, look at life in general.  We see these Facebook posts about what life was like when we were kids.  We went outside, we got dirty, we got wet, we ate dirt, we drank from hosepipes, we played football with metal studs, we fell off slides and roundabouts and landed face first on gravel!  "Ooooh no, we can't do that now..."

None of that is cool now, and a much duller world it is as a result...

Steve

 

Spot on Chunky.

[waytogo28 2,054]

11 hours ago, chunky said:

Hell, look at life in general.  We see these Facebook posts about what life was like when we were kids.  We went outside, we got dirty, we got wet, we ate dirt, we drank from hosepipes, we played football with metal studs, we fell off slides and roundabouts and landed face first on gravel!  "Ooooh no, we can't do that now..."

Oh Yes! Will there be a backlash in the next 50 years or will the interest in "tasting life in the raw" lead to humans really being dominated by AI and robots of all kinds by the end of this century? Maybe going outside and climbing trees will be an extreme sport for kids in 2075 and even a teenagers only event in the Olympics ( before their scrambled risk-taking brains settle down ). Think of the changes in society since 1900 and let your imagination visualise 2100! Wow! And speedway? Well, it will be viewed on antique digital devices and people will gasp in wonder at Tai Woffinden other GP warriors of today.

[moxey63 1,785]

14 hours ago, chunky said:

That is exactly the way I feel. Speedway evolved from "dirt-track" racing.  Watching burly men wrestling bucking broncos through heavy cinders was a spectacle!  It wasn't just about passing, or close racing; watching the skill and sheer strength that was needed to keep a bike upright was worth the admission price!

Sad thing, it's not just speedway.

 

 

At last, someone else who feels the same as I do. I have only got to plonk an old video (now dvd) on and I know I still love speedway... just not this speedway of 2018. It is so different now. Where have the times gone where riders had to earn their point, beating both opponent and using their entire strength for 60-odd seconds to defeat the track as well? Nowadays the track seems so smooth but the riders still aren't able to fully control the machines that sometimes turn into pogo sticks mid-race. It seems like rev -and -go speedway now. In my day, even if the racing was dire you still admired riders battling, say, to a four-point score and walking away feeling he deserved double that for his efforts alone. I look at score grids now and, tell me if I'm being daft, but even a 13 point score doesn't seem the same as a 13 point score from when tracks were deep and riders were men. And leathers made them more appealing too.

[montie 1,273]

20 hours ago, Crump99 said:

That's an excuse, not a reason. I'd say that there's more to it than that. As a long termer who still goes, I'd agree that the view and comfort is as good or better than anywhere, the track is rarely the same twice, presentation is probably good compared to the rest but compared to what it has been at Peterborough I'd say it's average. As to what more do people want, something more akin to what they had I guess although that didn't bring the crowds in either, so buggered if I know. A winning team usually does it and Rathbone seems to have got a handle on that now, hence Sunday's crowd.

for sure a wining team does click the turn styles a few more time,but i do wonder if the extra clicks actually cover the cost of a winning team

interesting point about the track not being same each week, is that a good thing or a bad thing?  i guess as long as its raceable and provides entertainment its ok

Track curators seem to try and produce a track that suits the riders of the hme team,i often wonder if that is right for the paying spectators

i must say that my visit to the show ground last month the track was perfect for what i consider good speedway and the quality  meeting represented that,it really was in tip top condition,but then during a rider interview the said rider commented that the track was a bit ``iffy`` ........   

 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,695]

1 hour ago, montie said:

for sure a wining team does click the turn styles a few more time,but i do wonder if the extra clicks actually cover the cost of a winning team

interesting point about the track not being same each week, is that a good thing or a bad thing?  i guess as long as its raceable and provides entertainment its ok

Track curators seem to try and produce a track that suits the riders of the hme team,i often wonder if that is right for the paying spectators

i must say that my visit to the show ground last month the track was perfect for what i consider good speedway and the quality  meeting represented that,it really was in tip top condition,but then during a rider interview the said rider commented that the track was a bit ``iffy`` ........   

 

I understand the showground is now in need of additional clay input which is causing some issues

A suitable supply at the right price doesnt appear to be available....

[Crump99 4,474]

2 hours ago, montie said:

for sure a wining team does click the turn styles a few more time,but i do wonder if the extra clicks actually cover the cost of a winning team

interesting point about the track not being same each week, is that a good thing or a bad thing?  i guess as long as its raceable and provides entertainment its ok

Track curators seem to try and produce a track that suits the riders of the hme team,i often wonder if that is right for the paying spectators

i must say that my visit to the show ground last month the track was perfect for what i consider good speedway and the quality  meeting represented that,it really was in tip top condition,but then during a rider interview the said rider commented that the track was a bit ``iffy`` ........   

 

It isn't each week unfortunately, more like each month these days, so that doesn't help. It's always rideable but raceable and providing entertainment depends on who you're asking or which report you're reading. Good point about what type of track is provided and the entertainment it provides. We've long been told that the riders want the EoES slick but I doubt many paying punters do, especially long term supporters or those who are no longer paying speedway supporters. Think that was Ostrich commenting on the track? A couple of meetings ago someone else moaned (can't recall who) that it was never the same two meetings running. Batchelor was always the best though with typical aussie tact and diplomacy

I don't think the team is a budget buster. Rathbone seems to send anyone packing who gets lost in their self importance so I guess that the extra clicks are money in the bank this year at least.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Crump99

[chunky 6,086]

2 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Good point about what type of track is provided and the entertainment it provides. We've long been told that the riders want the EoES slick but I doubt many paying punters do, especially long term supporters or those who are no longer paying speedway supporters.

...and therein lay one of the major issues in British speedway; what the riders want and what the paying customers want are two totally different things!

The supporters resent the riders for wanting conditions to suit THEM, when it is the riders who are the ones risking their necks. Of course, the riders then resent the supporters for wanting things that interfere with their jobs! Both opinions are totally justified, but it gets us nowhere.

The issue seems to be the modern "all about me" concept, but unfortunately, I don't know what the answer is.

Without the riders, there is no speedway.

Without the fans, there is no speedway.

Looks like we're screwed either way...

Steve

Edited August 9, 2018 by chunky

[Crump99 4,474]

25 minutes ago, chunky said:

...and therein lay one of the major issues in British speedway; what the riders want and what the paying customers want are two totally different things!

The supporters resent the riders for wanting conditions to suit THEM, when it is the riders who are the ones risking their necks. Of course, the riders then resent the supporters for wanting things that interfere with their jobs! Both opinions are totally justified, but it gets us nowhere.

The issue seems to be the modern "all about me" concept, but unfortunately, I don't know what the answer is.

Without the riders, there is no speedway.

Without the fans, there is no speedway.

Looks like we're screwed either way...

Steve

It's up to promoters collectively in that case to deliver a product that the fans want to watch, but we know that one or two at least will break ranks to knacker up any such agreement. Riders risk their necks by choice and can choose not to do it as a profession if they wish. That's not to make light of the dangers and their wishes need to be listened to and respected but the bottom line has to be that it is what it is and you can get on with it or do something else. Forgot to mention, I think that when Swales was asked about this subject last year he said that the modern volatile bikes can't handle the tracks as they were prepared 10, 15 or 20 years ago so perhaps slick is the way it has to be which will only hasten the decline.

[chunky 6,086]

3 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Forgot to mention, I think that when Swales was asked about this subject last year he said that the modern volatile bikes can't handle the tracks as they were prepared 10, 15 or 20 years ago so perhaps slick is the way it has to be which will only hasten the decline.

Right!  We already know that from comments from riders and ex-riders!  So, what is the answer?  As you say, if we stick with what we have, it will continue in a downward spiral...

Looking at comments on here, we accept that there will always be conflicts, and as I said before, everyone is an "expert"!  There are two choices, then:

1) Fix the tracks to suit the bikes.

2) Fix the bikes to suit the tracks.

That leaves us with these questions:

1) Which will be more practical/viable?

2) Which is more likely to stop the rot?

Steve

[Fromafar 10,335]

3 minutes ago, chunky said:

Right!  We already know that from comments from riders and ex-riders!  So, what is the answer?  As you say, if we stick with what we have, it will continue in a downward spiral...

Looking at comments on here, we accept that there will always be conflicts, and as I said before, everyone is an "expert"!  There are two choices, then:

1) Fix the tracks to suit the bikes.

2) Fix the bikes to suit the tracks.

That leaves us with these questions:

1) Which will be more practical/viable?

2) Which is more likely to stop the rot?

Steve

Have to agree with your last few Posts.It does appear the riders with their demands regarding tracks and wages are dictating the sport as oppose the the people running it.It is meant to be sport first and foremost.Most people realise the catch 22 situation but will it change now or is it too far into the mire.Its obvious regarding entertainment  value it getting beyond prices that fans are having to pay regarding family entertainment( more than 1 member attending regular)which the sport has relied on as its basic package.

 

[orion 7,612]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 7:19 PM, Spl77 said:

I want to see is my team v their team with the contracted riders and not a whole host guests and doubling up etc. Until they can get rid of doubling up and and guests no one can take it as a serious team sport. Its impossible to build up rivalry either between teams or individual riders if the following week some of this weeks visitors are riding for you. The blame for the chas that doubling has brought and the resulting lack of riders can only be placed firmly at the door of the BSPA. Before I get shot down and the 'guests are part of speedway and can't be helped' line comes out remember if you can the National League of the mid to late 1980s. That league ran for number of seasons with out guests and injuries were covered either with a member of the junior team stepping on or with rider replacement and a number 8 being named. So it could be done however the policy changes brought in over the years by the BSPA saw that system removed and changed to the shambles that we see today. 

Fans said  they  wanted less guests etc so chapman brought in fixed race nights to help ...the result was fans moaning about the race night . ...You can't replace main riders with juniors as it effects the crowd levels .

I hate to say it but there are no easy answers ..even when you give the fans what they want they still moan 

[Whisperer 276]

8 minutes ago, orion said:

Fans said  they  wanted less guests etc so chapman brought in fixed race nights to help ...the result was fans moaning about the race night . ...You can't replace main riders with juniors as it effects the crowd levels .

I hate to say it but there are no easy answers ..even when you give the fans what they want they still moan 

Not quite fixed race nights were to avoid clubs being in conflict with double up riders, it was to allow riders to ride in both leagues if necessary. Once guests were needed on a Friday 3 CL clubs were chucked under a bus to make more riders available.

[chunky 6,086]

36 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

It does appear the riders with their demands regarding tracks and wages are dictating the sport as oppose the the people running it.It is meant to be sport first and foremost.Most people realise the catch 22 situation but will it change now or is it too far into the mire.

The disturbing thing is that while British speedway has been in decline for many years, it was still relatively successful, and largely self-sufficient. Suddenly, everyone is sitting up and realising that we have now reached the point of no return. There is no single reason for the sport's problems, and unfortunately, there is no single - or easy - fix.

Of course, the biggest issue is the finances, and as much as I hate to say it, the riders have to shoulder much of the blame. Thing is, the promoters are equally at fault by spending more than they could afford.

I accept that these days, everyone thinks they are special, and that they deserve to be treated as such. That applies to all sports, and as someone who has spent a lifetime in professional sport, I do think that many sports have been ruined by money. I don't have a problem with the top names earning more, but I also feel that their demands shouldn't exceed the supply. We all know that hasn't happened in speedway, and I honestly fear it is too late...

Steve