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The continuing decline of Speedway

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11 minutes ago, orion said:

 A   lot Football players  teams are full of Loans players no one has a problem with that ..Football has a cup called the champions league that has teams without champions in it but is  one most watched comp in the world ...anyone can pulled apart a sport with stupid rules they all have them

But what about the guest player system. I hated it that time Sergio Aguero picked up injury playing for Bolton and he missed City's next three matches. But never mind, Man United borrowed us one of their players along with Arsenal and Chelsea, and we trundled on. Couldn't understand why each missed open goals and one even put one in our net by mistake.

I wish speedway was 1% as credible as even non-league soccer. To compare both sports is ridiculous. I'd compare it with wrestling.

Edited by moxey63
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9 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

Well the thread's hit 50 pages so something is going on!

Yeah, and mirroring speedway's plight, it's mainly the same few fans.

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1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

Rider Replacement isn't so bad. But (and this happened over the sport's lifespan) when a rider can turn out as a guest for a team that's challenging his own club for the title, try explaining that to a newbie. In fact, even longtime supporters must wince at this one. To me, guests and doubling up and down just shows that promoters have become a little too lazy and aren't trying to fetch in new talent from home and abroad. Dent Oliver produced five of his championship winning teams by hard work at the Belle Vue training school. Others at the time benefitted when Rider Control took many off the Aces. While allowing the doubling rider rule, promoters have it made and don't have to try. It smacks of a small-time sport not only lacking fans but riders.

or Scott Nicholls last week for instance: for Ippo v Lakeside, at Lakeside for Ippo, then for Panthers v Ippo on Sunday - not to mention last year's KO Cup final.

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2 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

or Scott Nicholls last week for instance: for Ippo v Lakeside, at Lakeside for Ippo, then for Panthers v Ippo on Sunday - not to mention last year's KO Cup final.

A get-by sort of attitude.

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1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

Yeah, and mirroring speedway's plight, it's mainly the same few fans.

Maybe but doesn't mean that they don't have a point. If they are wrong them tell them why and explain your reasoning. End of argument although in speedway world that's virtually impossible as there's a serious lack of transparency and consistency.

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4 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

A get-by sort of attitude.

you'll have to explain that one.

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4 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

or Scott Nicholls last week for instance: for Ippo v Lakeside, at Lakeside for Ippo, then for Panthers v Ippo on Sunday - not to mention last year's KO Cup final.

Those scenarios aren't a new thing though.

Whilst guests and a degree of doubling-up (number 8's) existed during the halcyon days, the current situation has taken both to ridiculous levels where league meetings end up being between random sets of riders far too regularly.

We can all remember isolated situations in the past where teams have been full of other riders, but the issue now is it has become the norm.

I can almost cope with guests for missing number ones and shared position doubling-up for young British riders if we really must, but will not go again until the current free-for-all is sorted out. 

The first fundamental change needed is to run the sport for the fans and not as a rider benefit scheme! If lower level riders need to become amateur then so be it.

I quite like the idea of one big league to start building some foundations of recovery, but it needs to be pitched at a level that most current PL and CL teams can afford, without necessarily accommodating the lowest common denominator - some teams will have to drop to CL level if necessary to ensure the big league is both affordable but still of a reasonable standard.

The 'sport' is in such a mess that there is no one silver bullet to fix things and maybe it is beyond repair? One thing that is particularly concerning is it is evident that most fans can't even agree on what is broken, never mind agree the fix!

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

But what about the guest player system. I hated it that time Sergio Aguero picked up injury playing for Bolton and he missed City's next three matches. But never mind, Man United borrowed us one of their players along with Arsenal and Chelsea, and we trundled on. Couldn't understand why each missed open goals and one even put one in our net by mistake.

I wish speedway was 1% as credible as even non-league soccer. To compare both sports is ridiculous. I'd compare it with wrestling.

As I said we had guests years ago when speedway was packed ..no one cared ....nothing ridiculous about comparing a sport that has stupid rules but still has billions of fans and is packed with  money ..you never know one day football might host a world cup where is to hot to stage it in the middle of the normal football season ..oh hang on

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18 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

or Scott Nicholls last week for instance: for Ippo v Lakeside, at Lakeside for Ippo, then for Panthers v Ippo on Sunday - not to mention last year's KO Cup final.

That's the example I was going to use. So a friend watches Swindon v Leicester on tv and decides to pop along with his mate to ipswich. Ipswich line up with Scott Nicholls at 1 and the newbie says to his friend that guy rides for Leicester I saw him on the tv. Yes he does comes the reply but he is guesting for us tonight because of injury to our top rider. So Leicester own him.? No he is owned by Peterborough and will be riding for them against us on Sunday. The newbie is now totally confused!

The explanation is that Peterbrough own him but he is free to sign a contract with any club he likes in another division. And if he has contracts with clubs in both divisions he is then free to pretty much  ride for any UK team as a guest.

That makes no sense says the newbie..... The reply ahh this speedway! 

If that looks like a sport that can survive can I have your rose tinted specs?

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50 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

Both doubling up and guests massively discredit the sport. Both have been aloud to become the norm however neither are needed but are the easy option. 

Yet again we had years of people saying this but not one person has come up with a better or workable idea ..look at you replace no1 's with juniors etc ..

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33 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

you'll have to explain that one.

A get-by attitude... let's get-by for today and worry about tomorrow then.

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1 hour ago, Crump99 said:

Well the thread's hit 50 pages so something is going on!

That doesn't answer my question.

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27 minutes ago, orion said:

Yet again we had years of people saying this but not one person has come up with a better or workable idea ..look at you replace no1 's with juniors etc ..

Many systems have been tried. During 1979(?) no guests or R/R were allowed in the Knock-Out Cup competition if I recall.

My personal option would be a guest for a missing number one or second heat leader (second averaged rider). Rider replacement for the  third, fourth and fifth (with differing replacement criteria depended on the average within the team in question) and juniors and/or loanees (as in the old days) at reserve.

Not worked out all of the implications as I'm sure there would be problems...and no doubt someone will highlight same!

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14 minutes ago, foamfence said:

That doesn't answer my question.

IMO domestic speedway is in a worse state than it was 2 or 3 years ago. It was in decline then and hasn't bottomed out yet so the answer is yes.

Others may disagree of course but most of the content in the 50 pages would suggest that yes is the answer.

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1 hour ago, frigbo said:

The first fundamental change needed is to run the sport for the fans and not as a rider benefit scheme! If lower level riders need to become amateur then so be it.

This has got to be the way forward, if not it will the path that leads to some amateur speedway sometimes held, somewhere in England. There is no way that UK speedway can afford full-time riders in future. King's Lynn had their best crowd ( estimated ) on Weds- possibly 1,500. I wonder what %age of the match costs were covered by the crowd?

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