The continuing decline of Speedway

[orion 7,612]

4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

The sadness is that is not totally true. I saw an excellent meeting at Somerset on Wednesday and a very decent one at Isle of Wight last night. 

It seems to me that it is a matter of speedway simply not making the most of the opportunity that television coverage allows and doing everything it can to ensure that when in front of the cameras huge effort is put in to put the sport in as favourable a light as possible. Too often we see rubbish meetings in dreadful tracks without any attempt to increase the attendance. That's just not good enough. 

The last club that really went to town when on television were Berwick. Massive advertising, cheaper entry, getting the track in as good a state as possible -  which was rewarded by a big attendance and a repeat visit. That should be par for the course. 

Most of the matches are poor as a rule and it's not just the racing it's the whole event that Speedway fails on ..overall speedway is poor in all area's 

[orion 7,612]

4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...who said anything about bringing chants back? You need to read my posts more carefully. I was comparing the fact that chants appear to be the norm in football (as well as other sport) but not in speedway apparently despite the continual debate about generating an atmosphere.

So I'm assuming that you went during the middle seventies. What would be helpful is that you were able to highlight things that worked  back then that would work now? Not everything was negative (although there were issues) which is what you keep implying in your posts despite you initiating different. You continually comment about 'now and then' but examples would be appreciated. After all the sport attracted thousands during it's last 'Golden Era' rather than the hundreds it apparently attracts now so it obviously was doing something right which it ain't now! 

Name one aspect of the sport that worked in the past and could be -re-emplemented now to improve the overall image?

As I explained many time once the uk become not the  first choice of the riders the whole game changed ..so things like second halfs ,Golden Helmet ,solo  events etc etc were never going to work again ..just saying bring them back because they worked in the 70's is naïve and stupid ..it's bit like saying put more phone boxes on the street because they used to take a lot of money years ago .

You and the likes of Moxey do yourself no favours buy keep crabbing other sports that are doing really well just because you don't like them ..I said before you have a breed of speedway fan aged between 55 to 70  a lot who  only turn up on these topics who only aim is to bring back rules when they used to go  

 

[moxey63 1,785]

2 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Most sports would be in trouble - they're all reliant on television and sponsorship these days. Not least because as revenue increases, the competitors not unreasonably expect a significant percentage of it, and as you always have to have winners and losers in sport, it becomes an arms race to sign them. 

Cricket would have to substantially scale back its expenses, but still gets significantly better crowds than speedway, especially at international level. 

But the point is surely that cricket is able to pull in decent television and sponsorship deals, it still get good media coverage, and it has high-level support that speedway can only dream of. 

Most sports would be in trouble without television and sponsorship. But speedway has to be given credit, surely, that it's battled on through more bad times than good. I haven't done a break-down, but I suspect more tracks have been lost to redevelopment than going bust. A lot of speedway's expense and outgoings is the engines, tuners and things they wear for safety.

Sponsorship was afforded all over the place in the seventies and eighties for speedway. But modern day, either they didn't try enough at the time, but it sort of summed things up really, when the sport couldn't gain a backer for the live meetings SKY used to afford it every week.

[orion 7,612]

18 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Most sports would be in trouble without television and sponsorship. But speedway has to be given credit, surely, that it's battled on through more bad times than good. 

It should be given no credit ..it's been ran poorly hence why it has no  sponsorship and hardly any  television 

[steve roberts 9,242]

45 minutes ago, orion said:

As I explained many time once the uk become not the  first choice of the riders the whole game changed ..so things like second halfs ,Golden Helmet ,solo  events etc etc were never going to work again ..just saying bring them back because they worked in the 70's is naïve and stupid ..it's bit like saying put more phone boxes on the street because they used to take a lot of money years ago .

You and the likes of Moxey do yourself no favours buy keep crabbing other sports that are doing really well just because you don't like them ..I said before you have a breed of speedway fan aged between 55 to 70  a lot who  only turn up on these topics who only aim is to bring back rules when they used to go  

 

...and as I keep reminding you it's been generally accpted that speedway started to decline during the mid - late eighties...long before foreign leagues influenced the choice riders had to make. It's more complex than that. It wasn't until the advent of the GPs that this scenario began to change significantly.

I don't think that anybody has specifically stated that by re-introducing aspects of the sixties and/or seventies and/or eighties speedway will become more popular. Changing of rules, heat formula etc etc drove many away from the sport but, more significantly, failed to attract new comers to the sport for varying reasons and/or circumstances.

As regards other sports I'm not particularly interested as it's difficult to compare like with like. Each has their own agendas and media hype.

However I do find it ironic that you are quick to have a go at certain posters but I fail to see anything positive from yourself when discussing speedway either from the past or indeed the present and I would be interested to learn what you once saw in the sport but now appear disillusioned ?

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by steve roberts

[orion 7,612]

2 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...and as I keep reminding you it's been generally accpted that speedway started to decline during the mid - late eighties...long before foreign leagues influenced the choice riders had to make. It's more complex than that. It wasn't until the advent of the GPs that this scenario began to change significantly.

I don't think that anybody has specifically stated that by re-introducing aspects of the sixties and/or seventies and/or eighties speedway will become more popular. Changing of rules, heat formula etc etc drove many away from the sport but failed to attract new comers which is critical to the survival of the sport.

As regards other sports I'm not particularly interested and it's difficult to compare like with like. Each has there own agendas and media hype.

However I do find it ironic that you are quick to have a go at certain posters but I fail to see anything positive from yourself when discussing speedway either in the past or present and I would be interested to learn what you once saw in the sport but now appear disillusioned with it?

 

As  I said if you don't understand other sports or not interested in them then don't comment .as I said it's so naïve to say thy only popular because of media hype or people only go so they  can get drunk .the clueless comments about football and 20-20 cricket say it all 

I say plenty of positive of things about about speedway the play offs and gp's are a great advert for the sport ..I find it's ironic that you go on about positive when don't even go anymore .tell me what do find positive what  new idea's have you got  ? as I said the  bottom line is your only remit it's to go on about 20 years ago ..don't tell me no play offs and bring back the one   off world final yea ?

[moxey63 1,785]

17 minutes ago, orion said:

As I explained many time once the uk become not the  first choice of the riders the whole game changed ..so things like second halfs ,Golden Helmet ,solo  events etc etc were never going to work again ..just saying bring them back because they worked in the 70's is naïve and stupid ..it's bit like saying put more phone boxes on the street because they used to take a lot of money years ago .

You and the likes of Moxey do yourself no favours buy keep crabbing other sports that are doing really well just because you don't like them ..I said before you have a breed of speedway fan aged between 55 to 70  a lot who  only turn up on these topics who only aim is to bring back rules when they used to go  

 

All I want back from the 70s is the team ethic and riders cutting back on the number of clubs they race for.

[moxey63 1,785]

31 minutes ago, orion said:

It should be given no credit ..it's been ran poorly hence why it has no  sponsorship and hardly any  television 

Hardly any television? Are you still on analogue? 

[orion 7,612]

3 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

All I want back from the 70s is the team ethic and riders cutting back on the number of clubs they race for.

So you like the plays offs and Gp's .before you said you never .what changed your mind ? 

[steve roberts 9,242]

41 minutes ago, orion said:

As  I said if you don't understand other sports or not interested in them then don't comment .as I said it's so naïve to say thy only popular because of media hype or people only go so they  can get drunk .the clueless comments about football and 20-20 cricket say it all 

I say plenty of positive of things about about speedway the play offs and gp's are a great advert for the sport ..I find it's ironic that you go on about positive when don't even go anymore .tell me what do find positive what  new idea's have you got  ? as I said the  bottom line is your only remit it's to go on about 20 years ago ..don't tell me no play offs and bring back the one   off world final yea ?

...yes and you constantly compared the introduction of Play- Offs in speedway to other sports (football in particular) As has been pointed out to you many times in the past Play-Offs in football were introduced to decide Promotion/Regulation issues not championships (unlike speedway) Can't imagine football fans being happy with that particular scenario if it was introduced. 

As regards the GPs (as has been pointed out by better people than myself and to repeat my earlier post) it was thru' their introduction that riders began to pick and choose their commitments and/or regularity  of meetings which created problems with continuity regarding meetings in this country. Of course one can argue it raised the profile of the sport but it has been achieved at a high price as regards the domestic programme. Depends on one's differing perspective and views. More importantly, however, the lost revenue that a one-off British World Final as well as other FIM meetings that once upon a time the BSPA would take a slice.

Neither Play-Offs or the GPs have helped generate a new generation of fans. As regards my views on the sport I have posted on many occasions both the positives and negatives if you cared to read...as I know you read my posts diligently! 

Edited August 17, 2018 by steve roberts

[orion 7,612]

7 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...yes and you constantly compared the introduction of Play- Offs in speedway to other sports (football in particular) As has been pointed out to you many times in the past Play-Offs in football were introduced to decide Promotion/Regulation issues not championships (unlike speedway) Can't imagine football fans being happy with that particular scenario if it was introduced.

As regards the GPs (as has been pointed out by better people than myself and to repeat my earlier post) it was thru' their introduction that riders began to pick and choose their commitments and/or regularity  of meetings which created problems with continuity regarding meetings in this country. Of course one can argue it raised the profile of the sport but it has been achieved at a high price as regards the domestic programme. Depends on one's differing perspective and views. More, importantly, however the lost revenue that a one-off British World Final as well as other FIM meetings that once upon a time the BSPA would take a slice.

Another lie .you are one who kept on about football .I compared them to other sports that used the same format  to decide the winners .I explained to why football never had to used them ..as you know  nothing about other sports  that is going to be hard for you to take that in .

I ask you again what are these postives  and idea's you  go on about that don't include going back to the past ..what are they ?

Edited August 17, 2018 by orion

[steve roberts 9,242]

33 minutes ago, orion said:

Another lie .you are one who kept on about football .I compared them to other sports that used the same format  to decide the winners .I explained to why football never had to used them ..as you nothing about other sporst that is going to be hard for you to take that in .

I ask you again what are these postives  and idea's you  go on about that don't include going back to the past ..what are they ?

...I've listed my criteria many times in the past (continuity/rider familiarity/a workable non-manipulative rule book/continuity of race formulae within leagues which was not always the case/length of races/an Independent controlling body/proper training structure as in Sweden and Denmark/non-reliance of foreigners in the lower league etc etc etc)

Remind me which other sports use the same Play-Off system speedway as you apparently know all about other sports. The fact that I used to follow football, Ice Hockey. Motor Racing, American Football and Snooker doesn't count for anything as I no longer have an active interest in them anymore.

I've named some of my views as regards my experience of many years of following speedway (in front and behind the scenes) but I'd be interested in yours and where you see the sport in the future considering that, I assume, you still attend? The Play-Offs and the GPs have been discussed and dissected enough regarding both the pros and cons but other aspects would prove intriguing. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by steve roberts

[orion 7,612]

Just now, steve roberts said:

...I've listed my criteria many times in the past (continuity/rider familiarity/a workable non-manipulative rule book/continuity of race formulae within leagues which was not always the case/length of races etc etc etc)

Remind me which other sports use the same Play-Off system speedway as you apparently know all about other sports. The fact that I used to follow football, Ice Hockey. Motor Racing, American Football and Snooker doesn't count for anything as I no longer have an active interest in them anymore.

I've named some of my views as regards my experience of many years of following speedway (in front and behind the scenes) but I'd be interested in yours and where you see the sport in the future considering that, I assume, you still attend? The Play-Offs and the GPs have been discussed and dissected enough regarding both the pros and cons but other aspects would prove intriguing. 

Rugby Union  ,Rugby League Premier league darts ,American Football ,20 -20 cricket  ,Ice hockey .,Netball .also speedway in Sweden and Poland ..it's very hard to  find a team sport that never uses them now 

[moxey63 1,785]

1 hour ago, orion said:

So you like the plays offs and Gp's .before you said you never .what changed your mind ? 

I don't like the Play-offs. Find where I said I don't like the GPs and get back to me. I don't recall that and may need to see the doctor, my memory's definitely going.

 

The Play-Offs are a big kick at the end of the season, a "bumper" attendance. The whole qualifying league programme is a waste of people paying money to watch. is this partly why crowds are dropping? Yet again Poole have benefitted from being allowed to weaken in the purpose of signing better riders. They'll win the Play-Offs now. A normal system without Play-Offs makes every match count. In the Play-Off qualifiers, you can piddle about. Ridiculous in my opinion. Why bother turning out and paying to watch the majority of those.. just turn up for the Final. But if you like it... Try selling it to all the new fans banging down the door, because it isn't the 70s, you know. What other changes can you think of? I just put forward the ones I think will work, and I didn't mention the Golden Helmet or second halves.

[moxey63 1,785]

13 minutes ago, orion said:

Rugby Union  ,Rugby League Premier league darts ,American Football ,20 -20 cricket  ,Ice hockey .,Netball .also speedway in Sweden and Poland ..it's very hard to  find a team sport that never uses them now 

But are any of those sports using speedway's rules, where a team is built to a limit at the start a season, purposely weakens itself and allowed to capture better players to make it stronger, and then goes on to win the top prize when most fans realise it was just one big twist. Poole fans were up in arms a few months back, wanting Matt Ford to quit. Then, wham-bam thank you mam, Rye House closed, a quick rejiggle and... everything is bright and breezy again at Wimborne Road. It is one big farce. The Play-Off system is a sham- Woffinden returning for Wolves to help them defeat what had been the better team all year. But, eh, if you like it... try telling the returning fans Belle Vue's new stadium attracted back after umpteen years, yet who were quickly put off by Tai's late-season call for Wolves as he steered them to victory. The other sports you mention, I guess, aren't even similar to speedway, in which one or two team switches can drastically alter your outcome. Again, ask Poole fans 

Edited August 17, 2018 by moxey63