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The continuing decline of Speedway

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27 minutes ago, orion said:

Rugby Union  ,Rugby League Premier league darts ,American Football ,20 -20 cricket  ,Ice hockey .,Netball .also speedway in Sweden and Poland ..it's very hard to  find a team sport that never uses them now 

...accepted (Premier League Darts? Strewth!) and your views on where the sport should be going assuming that you still go? I've given you a few of mine without having to repeat long winded  often repeated explanations.

The Play-Offs have been discussed and as Moxey and other posts have suggested it's not a level playing field and different criteria more often than not.

Edited by steve roberts

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6 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I don't like the Play-offs. Find where I said I don't like the GPs and get back to me. I don't recall that and may need to see the doctor, my memory's definitely going.

 

The Play-Offs are a big kick at the end of the season, a "bumper" attendance. The whole qualifying league programme is a waste of people paying money to watch. is this partly why crowds are dropping? Yet again Poole have benefitted from being allowed to weaken in the purpose of signing better riders. They'll win the Play-Offs now. A normal system without Play-Offs makes every match count. In the Play-Off qualifiers, you can piddle about. Ridiculous in my opinion. Why bother turning out and paying to watch the majority of those.. just turn up for the Final. But if you like it... Try selling it to all the new fans banging down the door, because it isn't the 70s, you know. What other changes can you think of? I just put forward the ones I think will work, and I didn't mention the Golden Helmet or second halves.

So if went back to old league season every match would count yea ? so if a 5th place team rode the 4th place team and they were 20 points behind the leaders what would that count for ? looking forward to this answer .

As has been explained a million times much more reason to watch more matches in a play off season than a normal one 

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11 minutes ago, orion said:

So if went back to old league season every match would count yea ? so if a 5th place team rode the 4th place team and they were 20 points behind the leaders what would that count for ? looking forward to this answer .

As has been explained a million times much more reason to watch more matches in a play off season than a normal one 

But how do the Play-Offs seem fair to a team that's won the qualifying table by 20 points and loses out to a team that finished fourth but have strengthened in the last quarter of the season?

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1 minute ago, moxey63 said:

But how do the Play-Offs seem fair to a team that's won the qualifying table by 20 points and loses out to a team that finished fourth but have strengthened in the last quarter of the season?

No one in any sport has ever said that  the play offs are fair ..the play off have always used to keep the season open for more teams  and make them money .also every understands the rules before hand .

without play offs and nothing to race for the modern fan will not go  and clubs will go bus,t in fact play offs in speedway are more important  than any other sport ..I ask again why would you watch a speedway match between a 4th and 5th team who have no chance of winning the league under the rules you want ? you said every match would count so explain what that would count for .

 

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17 minutes ago, orion said:

No one in any sport has ever said that  the play offs are fair ..the play off have always used to keep the season open for more teams  and make them money .also every understands the rules before hand .

without play offs and nothing to race for the modern fan will not go  and clubs will go bus,t in fact play offs in speedway are more important  than any other sport ..I ask again why would you watch a speedway match between a 4th and 5th team who have no chance of winning the league under the rules you want ? you said every match would count so explain what that would count for .

 

So, a fan of a 4th or 5th place team that has no chance of winning the league may give up following the team? Perhaps so, in this age where riders will turn out for anyone else at the drop of a hat. But in my world of team ethic speedway, you'd go to every match because the seven riders and you would build up some kind of bond. I used to turn up match upon match to Belle Vue, and much of that time they were near the bottom. Perhaps that's what's gone wrong with sport now, as Poole fans recently showed, either you're first in the glory system or you're on the couch at home. Someone has to finsih last, or would you make even bottom sides enter the Play-Offs? You know, it'd keep the season alive for them.  

 

I also recall one occasion a Play-Off-chasing team arrived at Belle Vue and seemed to purposely lose by a heavy margin to enable them a better draw in the semis. The whole Play-Off table matches can encourage both match and rider points massaging over the course of the league campaign. Not good. Speedway could do without such question marks being thrown its way if it wants to win or retain any credibility.

Edited by moxey63
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11 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

So, a fan of a 4th or 5th place team that has no chance of winning the league may give up following the team? Perhaps so, in this age where riders will turn out for anyone else at the drop of a hat. But in my world of team ethic speedway, you'd go to every match because the seven riders and you would build up some kind of bond. I used to turn up match upon match to Belle Vue, and much of that time they were near the bottom. Perhaps that's what's gone wrong with sport now, as Poole fans recently showed, either you're first in the glory system or you're on the couch at home. Someone has to finsih last, or would you make even bottom sides enter the Play-Offs? You know, it'd keep the season alive for them.  

Of course they will ..yet again you a have a  1970 mind set .a large % of fans wont go unless there is something to race for surely your aware of that ?  What you say about Poole is spot on ..The play offs keep  more teams seasons alive and even bottom like the lions had a match v Belle Vue had something on it due to  the play off places 

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30 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

So, a fan of a 4th or 5th place team that has no chance of winning the league may give up following the team? Perhaps so, in this age where riders will turn out for anyone else at the drop of a hat. But in my world of team ethic speedway, you'd go to every match because the seven riders and you would build up some kind of bond. I used to turn up match upon match to Belle Vue, and much of that time they were near the bottom. Perhaps that's what's gone wrong with sport now, as Poole fans recently showed, either you're first in the glory system or you're on the couch at home. Someone has to finsih last, or would you make even bottom sides enter the Play-Offs? You know, it'd keep the season alive for them.  

 

I also recall one occasion a Play-Off-chasing team arrived at Belle Vue and seemed to purposely lose by a heavy margin to enable them a better draw in the semis. The whole Play-Off table matches can encourage both match and rider points massaging over the course of the league campaign. Not good. Speedway could do without such question marks being thrown its way if it wants to win or retain any credibility.

...and of course the semis were just the one leg (are they still?) which obviously heavily favoured the home team. Without checking records have any away teams won a semi-final clash and qualified for the final? Why not two legged semi-finals followed by a two legged final unless you were Oxford in 2002 who were denied a chance to defend their championship thru' no fault of their own!

Again the assumption that Play-Offs helps generate new/and or old fans hasn't been borne out if overall attendance figures are to be believed throughout the season which is surely what domestic speedway requires if it is to thrive. Play-Offs should be the icing on the cake but you first need a cake.

Edited by steve roberts

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15 minutes ago, orion said:

Of course they will ..yet again you a have a  1970 mind set .a large % of fans wont go unless there is something to race for surely your aware of that ?  What you say about Poole is spot on ..The play offs keep  more teams seasons alive and even bottom like the lions had a match v Belle Vue had something on it due to  the play off places 

8

I await the influx of new fans then. I can't keep living in the 1970s. Just glad I watched speedway when it really didn't need sideshows to keep fans attending. I suppose Stuart Hall and It's A KnockOut is more apt for current speedway though, if I can revert back to that wonderful decade once more. 

Edited by moxey63
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1 hour ago, orion said:
Why are premiership football grounds still rammed when 4th play 5th orr even 20th

So if went back to old league season every match would count yea ? so if a 5th place team rode the 4th place team and they were 20 points behind the leaders what would that count for ? looking forward to this answer .

As has been explained a million times much more reason to watch more matches in a play off season than a normal one 

 

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15 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

I await the influx of new fans then. I can't keep living in the 1970s. Just glad I watched speedway when it really didn't need sideshows to keep fans attending. I suppose Stuart Hall and It's A KnockOut  is more apt for current speedway though, if I can revert back to that wonderful decade once more. 

...now you're talking! Bring on the 'Joker' ...oh sorry speedway's been there!

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35 minutes ago, Eduds1 said:

 

? I explained 20 times why football  is not the same '..if a 4th play a 5th in the top league in football they would playing  for a champions league spot ..a bottom could still playing millions of pounds in prize money .hence why they don't need play offs ..if you had posted the whole post rather than a line out of context it would have  explain it to you then 

Edited by orion

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Why not try something different if the play offs are such a big attraction. All qualifying meetings are £7.50 adults and £1 for children. Top six teams in the play offs charge £20 per adult £2 per child. For the final charge £30 per adult and £5 per child. See how popular they are with the fans on cost versus importance of meeting. Make it something special in the final and possibly an event rather than just a meeting and see whether it is a good as those who believe it is.

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11 minutes ago, orion said:

? I explained 20 times why football  is not the same '..if a 4th play a 5th in the top league in football they would playing  for a champions league spot ..a bottom could still playing millions of pounds in prize money .hence why they don't need play offs ..if you had posted the whole post rather that a line out of context it would have  explain it to you then 

...glad that we cleared that one up. Play-Offs in speedway and football don't follow the same criteria.

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1 minute ago, Hawk127 said:

Why not try something different if the play offs are such a big attraction. All qualifying meetings are £7.50 adults and £1 for children. Top six teams in the play offs charge £20 per adult £2 per child. For the final charge £30 per adult and £5 per child. See how popular they are with the fans on cost versus importance of meeting. Make it something special in the final and possibly an event rather than just a meeting and see whether it is a good as those who believe it is.

...sounds reasonable enough to me!

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4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...glad that we cleared that one up. Play-Offs in speedway and football don't follow the same criteria.

Yea I said that 100 times to you ..and so has everyone else . glad you finally understand 

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