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The continuing decline of Speedway

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45 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

It would appear that the time has come for me to accept that the sport will get no better and will ultimately die out in the UK.

Regrettably, I have come to the same conclusion. I had the pain of losing "my" team Norwich Stars when they closed down at the Firs. And the joy of opening at King's Lynn where a group of us followed the Stars from Norwich for every match. Even when I went to college in Leicester I supported the Stars from there, when I could,  and when I took a job in Northampton I went over to Saddlebow Road very regularly. There were some great times ( home and away ) with heroes like Terry Betts, Tiddler Turner , Michael Lee and even watching Darcy Ward and Tai Woffinden in the NL. Fantastic memories right through until that young lad Robert Lambert arrived ( to give me my latest and perhaps last heroic racer to watch ). Now that he has come of age ( as a rider ) the way that KL is now run ( and UK speedway in general ) does not appeal to me much. Culminating in the latest sin of doubleheaders V the same team which I am sure most fans do not find very appealing. Mind you in the last 70 years it has become so much more watchable on TV ( for me, better than being there now that in stadium atmosphere has almost vanished ) Swings and roundabouts and Ove Fundin remains for me the ultimate speedway rider since I witnessed his arrival at Norwich all those years ago. Now it's nearly died out as you say. Last legs at least! And Yes, Dinosaurs are dying out too.

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1 hour ago, Pinny said:

Imagine how doomed the Premiership would be if there were no play offs. 

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

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3 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

No, the watering down of the league has coincided with the lack of interest.

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5 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

We will never know what impact the Play-Offs have had on the sport since 2002. How many new people have they attracted, how many lost because of frustration their team was robbed on the line. If it keeps the few that remain and clicks the turnstiles every week, then it'll have to do. But there seems total frustration by most, many seemingly have disappeared from even posting on a forum like this one. That is a worry.   

Edited by moxey63
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12 hours ago, theblueboy said:

The issue lies squarely with the promoters but speedway has gone too far now. It’s dead in the water and there is no turning back. There is no infrastructure or thought process of where they are going or what they want to do. It’s hand to mouth every season with the promise of a new dawn.

Its the promoters that have done everything on a fag packet not Orion. 

This is a fact, not some bleating moaner going on and on ( and on, as I have been accused of doing ). When they do get together at the AGM so little seems to be fully thought through and fans with a bit of nous can see where the problems will crop up. So why can't those who are investing in it ( or taking out of it, as some must do when all income streams are taken into account ) see it as well? The death knell has already sounded for UK speedway ( as we know it ).

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4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I agrre with much of what you say but Orion doesn't make a case, or give examples, on how speedway should or could move forward except he keeps quoting Play-Offs as like other sports (American Football and American Ice Hockey played in the States adopt a different system which is essentially a Knock Out system beyond the Conference League stage). Speedway's problems lay much deeper than that. Media coverage and hype has helped tremendously by pushing certain sports and despite SKY's involvement with speedway the same thing never happened. A missed opportunity and one has to ask the question why?

I think that we all agree that speedway promoters have basically created issues within the sport with constantly altering formats and/or rules etc etc but the bottom line is that speedway appears to be going no where and in my view unless a Head of Administration is adopted (which is very unlikely) I can't see any progress. The sport needs a modern Mike Parker or John Berry to initiate a massive change but do the public, as a whole, now get excited about bikes going round in circles and environmental issues?

In answer to your missive, the promoters have failed to give the public what they want. Every year supporters come on here hoping for a change to the product. Broadly, most supporters want the same thing, so why do they continually ignore us?

I don’t know of any business that has a business model similar to speedway, well Woolworths, BHS and House of Fraser, might have. 

Speedway in the 70’s and 80’s was no better than speedway today. I have seen excerpts of You Tube from yesteryear. This blinkered understanding that people passed and repassed is not true. Conversely, I have watched various meetings in Poland and Sweden this season that have been absolute pants. What it tells me is that speedway is the same product then as it is now. The odd good meeting in amongst the usual gate and go.

I go every week because I am old romantic . The promoters rely on me and others like me but we are an ever decreasing support base. The various promoters in the various leagues have failed to grasp what is required to drive the sport forward. There is no joined up thinking or thought for the supporter.

The presentation, the music, the stadia, the inconsistency of the rules applications by referees and the SCB plus the track preparation in this country is damn right embarrassing (that’s a general statement re tracks as there are one or two that would be exempt).

I mean at Swindon on Thursday they trotted out the Spice Girls, a sport where 90% of the supporters are men they played that sh*t. Add in Now 1 and 2 and you have the complete music collection of Swindon speedway. The track was again in a poor state, Troy Batchelor is not everyone’s favourite rider but at least he has a pair and says it how it is. The rules and their interpretations vary from week to week depending on the referee or which promoter is asking the favour.

There is no long term plan or strategy. They introduced the draft system, they f*cked that up. Fixed race nights, they introduced that, ballsed that up. They had tv exposure and a decent contract, chucked that down the toilet.

Play offs apart, I cannot think of anything that has enhanced the sport in recent times.

Everything these fools touch turns to dust. If speedway was a horse, we wouldn’t hesitate...

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2 minutes ago, theblueboy said:

In answer to your missive, the promoters have failed to give the public what they want. Every year supporters come on here hoping for a change to the product. Broadly, most supporters want the same thing, so why do they continually ignore us?

I don’t know of any business that has a business model similar to speedway, well Woolworths, BHS and House of Fraser, might have. 

Speedway in the 70’s and 80’s was no better than speedway today. I have seen excerpts of You Tube from yesteryear. This blinkered understanding that people passed and repassed is not true. Conversely, I have watched various meetings in Poland and Sweden this season that have been absolute pants. What it tells me is that speedway is the same product then as it is now. The odd good meeting in amongst the usual gate and go.

I go every week because I am old romantic . The promoters rely on me and others like me but we are an ever decreasing support base. The various promoters in the various leagues have failed to grasp what is required to drive the sport forward. There is no joined up thinking or thought for the supporter.

The presentation, the music, the stadia, the inconsistency of the rules applications by referees and the SCB plus the track preparation in this country is damn right embarrassing (that’s a general statement re tracks as there are one or two that would be exempt).

I mean at Swindon on Thursday they trotted out the Spice Girls, a sport where 90% of the supporters are men they played that sh*t. Add in Now 1 and 2 and you have the complete music collection of Swindon speedway. The track was again in a poor state, Troy Batchelor is not everyone’s favourite rider but at least he has a pair and says it how it is. The rules and their interpretations vary from week to week depending on the referee or which promoter is asking the favour.

There is no long term plan or strategy. They introduced the draft system, they f*cked that up. Fixed race nights, they introduced that, ballsed that up. They had tv exposure and a decent contract, chucked that down the toilet.

Play offs apart, I cannot think of anything that has enhanced the sport in recent times.

Everything these fools touch turns to dust. If speedway was a horse, we wouldn’t hesitate...

I am certainly not saying speedway racing was better in the seventies. At the time, it was certainly more interesting and grabbed the attention more than what's on offer today. Was it the bikes were harder to race, the tracks more grippy and rutty, therefore there was a sense of riders making mistakes and other capitalising on them. I certainly recall riders coming back after a heat and being unable to speak, it was that hard out there.  Now, it seems so easy compared to back then. A few videos on Youtube don't tell the whole story. There were lots of characters and, unlike modern day, few hoping to make a name for themselves from with all the glam stuff a heatleader back in the day would have had to dance for.  I used to go to watch Belle Vue v Halifax in the early eighties for one reason - Kenny Carter. The Dukes were dross all the time, but seeing your top men against him and what could happen was worth entrance money. You'd certainly not wish to miss it.

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21 hours ago, orion said:

Most of the matches are poor as a rule and it's not just the racing it's the whole event that Speedway fails on ..overall speedway is poor in all area's 

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

18 hours ago, orion said:

No one in any sport has ever said that  the play offs are fair ..the play off have always used to keep the season open for more teams  and make them money .also every understands the rules before hand .

without play offs and nothing to race for the modern fan will not go  and clubs will go bus,t in fact play offs in speedway are more important  than any other sport ..I ask again why would you watch a speedway match between a 4th and 5th team who have no chance of winning the league under the rules you want ? you said every match would count so explain what that would count for .

 

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

14 hours ago, Midland Red said:

Why has the reason for attending changed so much - it was always the situation that (enter night applicable) was Speedway night, irrespective of the team's league position, or the opposition, it was to get our weekly fill and see "our team" - yes, it was good to win (happiness is 40-38) but it didn't really matter, or affect next week's attendance - probably only the two weeks annual holidays caused missing a home meeting

Here I've just read that fans wouldn't attend a meeting if it only involved 4th and 5th in a non-play off league - does no one go to watch and enjoy Speedway racing anymore?  Probably that's been lost due to lack of continuity of fixtures, lack of consistency of team makeup, doubling up/down

The "good old days" WERE good - there don't seem to be many good days in 2018 - that's why some of us do look back to seek how to improve things

But there does seem to be a different attitude from spectators, only winning matters now

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

13 hours ago, theblueboy said:

 

Rugby league adapted. It couldn’t compete with football. They needed to change. So they moved it’s season to accommodate Sky, have a Magic Weekend, play on lovely pitches and it’s a fast paced sport. Far better than the crap that filled up Grandstand’s schedule from 15.55 - 16.40 when I was a boy in the 70’s when it was pouring with rain and Bradford Northern beat Featherstone 4-2 in a absolute hummdinger. 

 

 

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

11 hours ago, chunky said:

 

 

57 minutes ago, Midland Red said:

Play offs have coincided with a downturn in interest in the rest of the domestic season

This shows how spectator attitudes have changed, as I alluded to earlier

They have also coincided with, and generated, a move away from entertainment for the spectators, replaced by rule-bending, greedy and selfish attitudes of certain individuals, on both sides of the safety fence

"Let's get away with 10 heats" seems to be the norm now, rather than provide an evening's entertainment of 20+ races 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

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5 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

The Play-Offs are like the Champions League group stages in football. They allow for so many mistakes. I remember Arsenal qualifying in a six match group after losing their first three matches. Every PO match is still important, but they then lack importance becausue of the number of matches you're allowed to lose to fiddle in new riders and still reach the top four. So they have watered down the importance of every match being important, as they were in the old league system. It allows half most of the teams in a seven club league to have a shout. It is fake, but in an era where you've got to be a winner, if it helps keeps speedway going, then that's important. But it won't win me back.

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2 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

The Play-Offs are like the Champions League group stages in football. They allow for so many mistakes. I remember Arsenal qualifying in a six match group after losing their first three matches. Every PO match is still important, but they then lack importance becausue of the number of matches you're allowed to lose to fiddle in new riders and still reach the top four. So they have watered down the importance of every match being important, as they were in the old league system. It allows half most of the teams in a seven club league to have a shout. It is fake, but in an era where you've got to be a winner, if it helps keeps speedway going, then that's important. But it won't win me back.

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

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17 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

Just a falseness about it. There shouldn't be 80-odd per cent of clubs still involved with weeks of the season to go. That's a school sports day ploy where even the losers get medals. In any sport there has to be a taste of failure. Otherwise, you can't enjoy winning.

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If you think there isn't a taste of failure just ask the Ipswich fans after the play off final last year.

have way through the second leg they were on course to possibly win it then everything changed and Sheffield won the meeting

I am certain they were disappointed, I know I would have been if we had lost

 

 

Edited by The Third Man
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1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't agree about the racing at least. As I said earlier, Somerset on Wednesday was brilliant. Isle of Wight on Thursday was good, and while Plymouth last night was merely OK heat 13 was just stunning - one of the best races I have seen this season anywhere. 

Certain - and I'd accept many - clubs drag down the reputation of the sport by not putting sufficient effort in to make sure that the paying fan has a good night. As Bob C said to me so accurately last night, all you get is lets have your money, here's 15 heats. That's not good enough.

But when did you see an adverse post about Isle of Wight ? They haven't got a magic wand, so every club could gain the same reputation if they tried hard enough and the worst bit is that the Warriors standing has not been created by spending vast amounts of money or taking huge amounts of time. In fact, its pretty simple : they care.

I think you are right here and would question how many of those who criticise the play off system have actually been to one of the meetings. As I have said before, Mildenhall-Scunthorpe NL final a few years ago was easily one of the best matches I have seen. The Belle Vue - Wolverhampton meeting had everything that speedway should have - fantastic racing, a huge crowd, electric atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that, and speedway just isn't in a position to ignore the almost sell out gates the finals attract.

I don't think there is any difference today, save for the attendance levels. We have always (50 years anyway) had guests, points limits, tactical changes and everything else people complain about. The racing is just as good (or bad) as it ever was. 

I also think that it has always been substantially about winning, and that doesn't just apply to speedway but any sport. Watching your team get humped every week means that attending can - for some - become a chore. Ask a Sheffield supporter right now.

I read an article recently (it has been reprinted in a number of speedway programmes) that said that Rugby League was facing a serious financial crisis and that only a handful of clubs are financially viable. Speedway isn't alone.

 

I'd question whether play offs have indeed led to decreased interest. After all, every match is still important - the current position in the Premiership being an obvious example. That's surely better financially than one team winning the league in mid August and others having 5 or 10 absolutely meaning less fixtures to complete.

Absolutely agree on the 'rule bending, greedy and selfish attitudes'. Until some put the interests of the sport as a whole before their own (and at the expense of others) speedway will continue to be on its knees.

Wish youd stop banging on about the IOW - their crowds are still low which hits the nail on the head that the sport is on its arse .

A whole lot more needs doing than what the IOW are doing . 

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Maybe we should have the season based on Knock-Out Cup matches. That way, everytime a club and more importantly its fans taste defeat, the season is over anyway. 

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2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Ask a Belle Vue fan if the play offs  have 'watered down' the importance of meetings because, in fact, its quite the opposite. 

In the first past the post system they almost certainly wouldn't have a prayer and the meetings at Leicester, Somerset and Swindon (for the Aces) wouldn't have mattered one jot. Instead, there was massive disappointment on  Monday replaced by something approaching euphoria by Thursday night. Truth is, with only a few weeks to go only Leicester are out of it.

There's the difference - it used to be that they were speedway meetings, an evening's entertainment, never was there a meeting that "didn't matter"   

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